A disturbing trend...

[chizle97]

"APLAUSE" I whole-heartedly agre now if you could just tell that to the kids with the excals-ecockers-03shockers-and DM4s in the same dye bag that. (yes there is one of those kids at the local field. needless to say he sux at life)

[Lohman446]

Ready for this, and Im about to get lynched by the speedball players.

Let me say, in my own defense - I prefer speedball - though I play woodsball often enough, these are why I prefer speedball Now here we go

In rec. speedball mad rush tactics (bunker moves) even poorly executed, and the ability to lay a stream of paint, can cover up a lack of skill. Frankly when I go out on rec days I fire enough paint into the air to make up for a lack of skill (even with my mechanical mag).

Look at how I play woodsball, I make sure to carry as much paint as I do when I play speedball, I am very slow off the break adn let everyone else find the enemy. This helps eliminate one skillset I choose not to use in woodsball, patience and stealth. Am I stealthy - sure, I often enough pick the holes in the defense, force through them - it is very seldom that I am not the first to be assaulting the base and I get the flag about 50% of the time. But, the fact of the matter is - in a "firefight" I use a lot of paint.

There are two different skill sets to the two games - I am better at speedball with rec players than woodsball, perhaps thats why I prefer speedball.

So - Tyger, its an ego thing, I would rather play that which I can appear better at, though why I have no idea. If I were to take this one step further, I would simply demean those who play woodsball, I don't I enjoy woodsball myself, but it could be the next step.

[Severe]

Originally posted by Methylphenidate
speed ball all the way. speed ball is the only way that paintball will ever be moved from the the catogory of activity to the category of an actual sport in the eyes of the general public.(i.e. people who are not familiar with the game). and it has nothing to do with being on television or fame.
speed ball is a sport because it requires things that all other sports do. things like skill, practice, strategy. no one walks on to a speed ball field and is immediatly olie lang. just as no one steps on to a basketball court and is micheal jordan. yes some people have this thing called natural talent that gives them a considerable edge over other, but you cant just jump in the ring with ali because you think you box.

where in wood ball sure there is some strategy but for the most part it comes out to luck of the draw, as my friends say anything and everything can happen in wood ball. and you can be a totall newb with no experience and still kill the best player that has been playing for years, why because you went to walmart bought a plastic bush duct taped it to your back and hid in a ditch while you waited for someone to come by. tell me where is the skill in that.
how did he practice and study and refine his game to dress up like a bush and shoot people as they walk by. that is not a sport my friend that is a hobby.

This is exactly the type narrow minded thinking that Tyger is talking about! The above comments are a banner proclaiming the ignorance of the speaker.

I'm just dying to go on a rant here, but I'll refrain.

However,I'll say this, there is skill required in both Speedball and woods play. That skill varies greatly. I think if more people would focus on just enjoying the time they spend playing and trying to be a good ambassardor to the sport/hobby/recreation activity (or whatever it is that makes you feel batter to classify paintball) the better off all players would be.

Steve

[RusskiX]

I personally think that there is a large, but silent majority of rec-ballers who play exclusively woods ball, but don't frequent the boards enough to voice an opinion. The result is a vocal population of airballers pushing their view.

The overwhelming majority of ballers start in the woods, and I am grateful for the local courses for generating this grass roots growth of the game. I also appreciate the tourney scene for trying to legitimize paintball to an outsider. But I don't believe that airball has the monopoly on educating the public. Friends bringing first time players to the woods have had just as much success growing the sport as airball.

As long as the play is safe and organized there should be room for both. Personally, I've played speedball and woods, I wear my JT jersey and shoot my Angel and Eblade, but I prefer woods over airball. I think there is room for everybody at the table.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Methylphenidate
ok you all might not agree with me on this but here is my two cents on the speedball woodball debate. and i will give my reasoning.

speed ball all the way. speed ball is the only way that paintball will ever be moved from the the catogory of activity to the category of an actual sport in the eyes of the general public.(i.e. people who are not familiar with the game). and it has nothing to do with being on television or fame.
...

Speedball IS the most likely way paintball will move to become a "real sport", and part of that has to do with the ease with which it is possible to make a balanced field. You can make a balanced woods field, but they will never be symetrical, and thus there will always be debate as to which end is "better". The other main advantage to speedball is that it is easier to watch, and thus to get TV coverage and advertising revenue. But speedball is usually no more a sport than rec players in the woods. Because there aren't enough referees to ensure the rules are followed, and because the single-hang-takes-all style of game makes the whole thing too unpredictable.

X-ball IS a sport, from what I know of it. But that is not because of the field set-up, but all the other rules about game timing, player positions, substitutions and paint limits. Put those same rules to use in the woods, and you still have the same sport, but you can't put on TV.


I'm going to ignore the other half of your post, as Severe already did a good job of pointing out what was wrong with it.

BTW Tyger - Nice rant, and good for you for reading PBN. Hopefully you cans et a few of them straight!

[magking1971]

It's almost as bad as people calling paintball guns "gats"

[Faultie]

One question I got is why the sudden move away from the older idea of the "national survival game" and the military aspects. I'm not a die-hard scenario gamer, I play speed or woods, whatever, but I just wanna know why people who get vulgar, threaten others, and down-others for their likes and dislikes want to distance themselves from the idea of violence in their sport? Another question is what's wrong with the violence/military idea? Killing games are the #1 sellers in video games, movies with killing and battles are #1, and most comic books/fiction books are violent/war-type things. If it's okay for games, movies, etc. to be associated w/ violence (especially on the level of GTA and GTA: Vice City), then why is it not okay for paintball? Hrm...go fig. Either way, I'd say most of the people making these statements are 13yrs old (+/- a few years) and that's just how 8th graders are. We are all that age once, and we all know how it is.
-Andrew

[Faultie]

Oh...and just my own rant...pball will be a sport when the players don't cover the cost to play and the bulk of money comes from people paying to watch...but that's the deal. Paintball isn't much fun to watch, I love playing, but nobody likes just watching (which is one reason I think people cheat, but I'll refrain from touching that topic...one pandora's box I'll not open). That's why X-ball is so promising, to me, b/c you can watch it and it might be fun to watch. You can really watch woods-ball, you know? I think pball's issue is that it has an expendible like no other sport...paintballs. Geh...oh well...another rant, blah blah blah. We were all 13 once, remember. The only choice is to just try to help these misled people, and not to try to insult them or say, "oh yeah, well, your style sucks". Just accept that they'll be there.
-Andrew

[Faultie]

delete this...

[Brophog]

Its the "Clown Theory". No one takes a clown seriously.

We seem to associate so much with color. Dark colors like black, green, and brown indicate bad things, troubling times. On the other hand, clown colors like red, yellow, and orange indicate happy thoughts. Now who would associate those colors with "guns" and "killing". It is color association that deems paintball "safer" if its not in the woods anymore.

As for the defense of the two, I think you can look at equipment as a result of that. While terrain is more important in woodsball, I think marker choice becomes less important. Rate of fire is not as big of a factor if you cannot see your opponent. I think that irritates a lot of people who have spent hard earned cash to buy the best marker possible. Imagine if you owned a Ferrari, but only had small city streets in order to drive it on. You'd be frustrated that you spent $60,000 and aren't allowed to use the Ferrari as it was intended.

Plus, I think some of it boils down to ignorance. Remember a lot of these guys are much younger, typically early high school years, or younger. Some of them have never seen woodsball. All they know is what they read in the magazines and videos. If the magazines are pushing speedball, yet the only knowledge of woodsball comes via the internet, or from some local friends, which do you think the young kid is gonna side with? He sees "pros" playing speedball, and the local neophyte playing woods. Its pretty obvious that he will side with speedball and rapidly dismiss woodsball. It's a big problem when you get a rapid surge of media AND a new young audience together at the same time. Those that don't know any better only know what is spoon fed to them, and in this case that is speedball.

[tyrion2323]

Or you'll never eat anything other than nachos with your special green sauce on them?

Let's not joke about this here...I love my green sauce, and I won't have it any other way!

Actually, this trend is disturbing - noobs spouting off about stuff they don't know about. Like most of you, I started off in the woods, and slowly learned about speedball and such as I read magazines. Although, unlike most of you, I am still young, and I am not wrinkly and grumpy....oops! heheh.

This seems like a reversal of what the situation USED to be like. I used to see a whole bunch of woodsplayers writing articles and posting negative images of Speedball. I remember when I decided that I liked speedball better, I realized "Hey, what's with all this negative bashing from the Woodsies?" It seems like this has turned around a bit. I would say that it stems from a lack of proper introduction to the sport.

We all know that paintball started in the woods. We've all shots CO2 powered Spyder and Tipps, and spent 20 minutes sneaking around a field to get to the flag. Newer players aren't introduced to that. They're introduced to Speedball and Hyp'Air. Is this bad? No, but just as Woodsball can be stereotyped as the redneck version of pball, the tournament scene can be stereotyped as the "skatepark" of paintball. There are too many "gangstas" and "gats," and not enough respect and encouragement. It seems that the two factions can't find a happy medium between woods and speed.

What needs to be done?
- Better management of fields. Owners need to crack down on "gat shootin' gangstas" who spray and pray. These no talent *** clowns perpetuate bad images of paintball, and then get picked up by the media (remember that picture of "Bear" or whatever his name was...).
- More responsibility on the part of the paintball media outlets (i.e. magazines and videos). I remember in the clip from 300 FPS, there were ridiculously violent parts where people threw their markers and attacked each other. Well, DUH - of COURSE people are going to think that paintball is all about fighting...or shall I say....fisticuffin'
- Less naked chicks and ghetto-*** pictures of Lasoya. Yeah, I admit that naked women appeal to me, but this is paintball...not playboy.com. Couple that with the "tough gangsta" image of Lasoya, and it's no wonder that we get rough attitudes.
- Finally, we need less people dressing up like cats and tigers and running around shooting people. Seriously, this probably the worst part of paintball...I mean, getting shot by a mountain lion? C'mon here

Okay guys, those are my thoghts.

Jacob

[Gijim]

I've played both and enjoy both, although I play woods more just because its closer to me. I do agree that there seems to be a seperation with more players, either woods or speedball. To be honest it gets boring to play one type all the time thats why I enjoy the differences, but some don't see it that way and I believe they limit their fun and their abilities. It takes skill to play both so lets end that stupid arguement. I have noticed that it is easier to introduce new players to woods than it is speedball. You really need to have a conscience group of players when teaching a new player speedball, or they could end up not coming back after being shot 12 times after they said out. Plus, when short on money woods is the way to go, I go all day on less than half a case of paint, whereas I go through a case or more when playing alot of speedball. Still there is room for both and it seems it will stay that way, which is good for the sport.

[Tyger]

Mega reply :

Ok, a lot to hit on...

First, to Tyiron and his mountain lions :

Ok, serious.

I wasn't cruising PBN, actually. It's a webboard that just strted up. I'm not going to post the site, only becasue I know if I did, you all would FLOOD over there, and it would be taken as an act of warfare. I don't play that way. I'll just leave it to that.

The gent in question has already demonstrated his ignorance to me. his quote to the original poster was "Quit or go play speedball." I took it upon myself to point it out to the rest of the board. And I wash my hands of his pig ignorance, and refuse to be held accountable for it.

The trashtalk between the two aspects of he game isn't new, I've jut seen it take a nasty turn. "Play our way or just sell your gear and quit." is a harsh stance. It also smacks of bigotry and strongarm tactics to get your way. But let me hit a few things here.

Josh2X : All good stuff. The split is there, I just figure it's time to just admit it and move on. Crossfire / 2X pretty much rides the sides, as they are. If I send a "Big Game" article to 2X, they'll forward it to Crossfire. And I'm perfectly OK with that. It also means that the speedball crowd does not have to buy what they don't want to. I think there's a huge crossover too, one to the other, but you don't read about them because they're not flashy.

Calvin : "Evolving" from the woods assumes the game has changed. Essentially, it has not. The windowdressing changed, but the basic premise has not. I'm jumping onto Rather's idea here, but you can take woods players and put them in an airball field, and they'd have at least a clue what was going on. Same goes to arena ballers into the woods. Each "specalty" has their own tricks on their own format. Speedballers know how to sweet spot and how to lane shoot. Woods ballers know how to sneak around and use soft cover. But they play the same game.

DurtyBunny brings up a good point, actually. The image driven by magazines is what is fueling it. I'd thought of this before, yes, but I wasn't thinking of it here. I guess it's connected too.

Methylphenidate : I will disagree with you that there's "no skill" in woods play, if only on the argument that I've heard the same thing said about speedball. "There's no skill in that, you just shoot paint." It's easy from the outside to say there's nothing to it. It's not just "luck of the draw", just like speedball isn't just "who can put pme paint in the air?"

One of the other things to talk about is the "dressing up" of paintguns to look like real firearms. Sure, there's a milsim aspect to paintball. The "Tac-One" is a prime example of this. But it also needs to be said that all paintball markers share somehting here. WE SHOOT PEOPLE WITH THEM!!!! That alone caused the NRA to avoid paintball. It doesn't matter what the clown suit or clown gun looks like, we're still shooting things at people. The only way to get around this, possibly, is to mill a paintball gun to look like a confetti gun or something, and even then you won't get far to putting paintball on 'Da Box.

Lohman also said somehting of note.

So - Tyger, its an ego thing, I would rather play that which I can appear better at, though why I have no idea. If I were to take this one step further, I would simply demean those who play woodsball, I don't I enjoy woodsball myself, but it could be the next step.

It's intresting to think that it could be as simple as that. If you'r enot good at that 'flavor', insist everyone drinks your flavor that you're good at. It would be a simple ego thing then, at that point. Playing guys in the woods brusies the ego, so don't play in the woods. Make them play in your arena, so you can bruise thier egos? It's an intresting concept.

Brophog added that it's clown theory. Well, perhaps. But they tried adding colors to the NFL teams too, and it didn't work. Color only goes so far. When it comes time to show what you've got, you can be in the brightest of brights and nobody will take you seriously.

-Tyger

PS : See, this is why I like AO. You can actually DISCUSS this stuff seriously here wihtout anyone reverting to "l337 5p33k"....

[Richter]

[nate2k191]

I love both styles of play, woods and speed, i would prolly like wooded more if they made some sweet wooded fields. im picturing one in my head.. looks bad ***.i'd rather have a ton of fun paintballing then be on a team and be all pro and competitive and not have fun.