A disturbing trend...

[Fixion]

I like all kinds o paintball, that includes woods, AND woods with pump guns!

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Faultie
One question I got is why the sudden move away from the older idea of the "national survival game" and the military aspects. I'm not a die-hard scenario gamer, I play speed or woods, whatever, but I just wanna know why people who get vulgar, threaten others, and down-others for their likes and dislikes want to distance themselves from the idea of violence in their sport? Another question is what's wrong with the violence/military idea? Killing games are the #1 sellers in video games, movies with killing and battles are #1, and most comic books/fiction books are violent/war-type things. If it's okay for games, movies, etc. to be associated w/ violence (especially on the level of GTA and GTA: Vice City), then why is it not okay for paintball? Hrm...go fig. Either way, I'd say most of the people making these statements are 13yrs old (+/- a few years) and that's just how 8th graders are. We are all that age once, and we all know how it is.
-Andrew

I mostly play in the woods, and wear some camouflage, but I don't want paintball to have a military or violent image. What's wrong with the violence/military idea of paintball is that it frightens the ignorant public, and can lead to very restrictive laws and regulations. Look at Australia - they can't import a semi-auto pball marker, and in some states aren't even allowed to keep their equipment in their own homes.

There has been a lot of noise about video games and movies, and a rating system was emplaced for them. But no one is driving down the street and taking someone's eye out with a video game. We are much more vulnerable to that sort of renegade behaviour.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by Methylphenidate
ok you all might not agree with me on this but here is my two cents on the speedball woodball debate. and i will give my reasoning.

speed ball all the way. speed ball is the only way that paintball will ever be moved from the the catogory of activity to the category of an actual sport in the eyes of the general public.(i.e. people who are not familiar with the game). and it has nothing to do with being on television or fame.
speed ball is a sport because it requires things that all other sports do. things like skill, practice, strategy. no one walks on to a speed ball field and is immediatly olie lang. just as no one steps on to a basketball court and is micheal jordan. yes some people have this thing called natural talent that gives them a considerable edge over other, but you cant just jump in the ring with ali because you think you box.

where in wood ball sure there is some strategy but for the most part it comes out to luck of the draw, as my friends say anything and everything can happen in wood ball. and you can be a totall newb with no experience and still kill the best player that has been playing for years, why because you went to walmart bought a plastic bush duct taped it to your back and hid in a ditch while you waited for someone to come by. tell me where is the skill in that.
how did he practice and study and refine his game to dress up like a bush and shoot people as they walk by. that is not a sport my friend that is a hobby.

I can tell this was written by a person who never truly played a woodsball game. Does this mean that in 2001 when the IAO was played in the woods that any team that walked on that field had a better chance against their opponent than they do in hyper/air ball? If so, you are mistaken.

[minimagjim]

about speedball vs. woodsball skill or the lack of that is required to play.

well all i got to say is that these two types challenge us in different ways.

Woodsball, usually people are wearing camo or ghillies or some dark blending color to not be noticed by the other team. Also in this type of play stealth and precise shots are very important. Almost everyone is equal when it comes to pumps, to mechs, to e-guns. If a guy is hiding and you pass him up and he shoots you in the back your e-gun is just a prop in a movie. This type of play stresses these things its not just who can shoot or run the fastest its more the whole experience of playing that way. You have many abilities being tested each time you play.

Speedball, camo is not important, but i feel you almost need a jersey or cool pants. If not you show up with camo pants, same you use for woodsball, and are mocked. thats at least how it was with me. Speedballers will not take you seriously unless you walk the walk, talk the talk, and wear cool pants. However, other things are stressed in speedball. You got to shoot fast and where it counts and make real fast decisions, and usually have to stay tight and agile through out the game.

In both games the objective is the same NOT GET SHOT and SHOOT THE OTHER GUY as well as get the flag or whatever. The only thing different is how we play. Woodsball stresses certain skills and so does speedball.

not that one side is right or wrong nor is one side less skilled than the other. Speedballers play speedball good and woodsballers play woodsball good.

what should be stressed is tolerance for the other side. If you got a friend whos only into speedball, cool, thats fine. Or you meet a bunch of people on your field that are used to a certain type of play dont bash them for it cause they arent used to your fields way. You should help them out or respect their differences.

alright thanks for reading my little rant im always open for debate and suggestion i kinda worte this thing fast so i may have left something out...

[Severe]

I really do not see why people are down on players wanting to embrace the "Mil-Sim" aspect of paintball. It seems perfectly natural for someone to wear BDU's who sole purpose to is to be playing in the woods to want a tactical looking marker. Why does everyone think that Tippmann sells so well?

Speaking of which, it would be interesting to see how the Speedball vs. Woods Play debate would play out on some of the Tippmann forums, where the large majority of players play ONLY woodsball.

If someone wants to dress like Patton with an MP5 stylized marker and carrying 1000 rounds of blue breaks pink paint...SO BE IT! If they want to dress like the Arizona state flag with a purple and red marker and carrying 2000 rounds of blue breaks pink, the more power to them also!

...can't we all just have fun?

[Gunga]

Originally posted by minimagjim
Speedball, camo is not important, but i feel you almost need a jersey or cool pants. If not you show up with camo pants, same you use for woodsball, and are mocked. Speedballers will not take you seriously unless you walk the walk, talk the talk, and wear cool pants.

Bah. Who cares what so and so thinks of what you're wearing? They soon won't care if you light 'em up at their game of choice.

This whole clothing thing annoys me. Personally, I wear BDU's and a t-shirt (usually black or green). I never have owned paintball pants, and the only jersies I have are the two I got at Shatnerball I & II. Haven't worn those jersies since.

Camos certainly help out on a woods field, and they don't hurt you on a speedball field. Whereas a yellow/blue/pink/whatever jersey also don't help you out at all on a speedball field, but they damn sure well shout 'here i am! Shoot me!' on a woods field. But if I don't wear a jersey, I'm not 'cool'.

Function over form for me. Maybe it's just that I'm getting old and don't care what the paintball fashion police think of how I dress.

And for all those politically correct types who want to get rid of paintball's militaristic/violent image, you're just wasting your time. We use guns. We shoot at people. Intentionally. And with malicious purpose sometimes (e.g. intentionally bonusballing someone).

Go play lasertag. Or use squirtguns. Oh wait. You can't. Both of those use guns too. You might as well try to get the NFL to stop people from tackling one another because it's violent.

Well...back onto the topic of the thread (what a concept!), I like both speed & woods ball. Here's my pros and cons of both.

Speedball

Pros:
Easier to keep track of where the opponents are
Spectator friendly


Cons:
Higher paint usage (more expensive to play)
ROF is a big factor
Fewer places to hide/less movement around the field



Woods

Pros:
Generally bigger fields
More bunkers (combined with the bigger field makes it easier to move around, and harder for people to find me)
You can be sneakier
Less paint usage (cheaper)
ROF isn't as big of a factor
Shady (nice on a hot summer day)


Cons:
Mosquitos
PITA to find people to shoot sometimes (scenario games)

Damn. I think that was my longest post ever.

[bokraham]

I love speed ball and woods ball, but not as much. I like speed ball much more because I know what is going on. In the woods I'm all hiding behind a bush when 5 shot come out of nowhere, also woods games are made for people that like to play the back, and I play front, see the conflict. oh well Woods is paintball and there fore fun fun fun.

[rx2]

IN regards to the original question, the only thing it comes down to is ego. My dad can beat up your dad. I see it happen with everything that a person can associate himself with, or choose (such as with markers). Many people are afraid. They are afraid and insecure. As such, when you ask them why they choose a certain way, rather than simply explain that they prefer it, they cite all sorts of reasons why it is the only "right" way, and that every other choice is wrong. They not only need to justify, but they feel the need to place themselves higher, as well.

Again, let me use markers as a parallel. Marker "A" and marker "B" perform similarly in nearly every aspect. Ask the owner of marker A why he didn't choose B, and you will find that often he will lambast and berate marker B, and those who would choose to own it. If more people happen to own B, then the image of marker A will take a hit, until everyone but hardcore fans will even consider marker A.

The same happens with everything, really. I am a musician, and I find that if you take two guitars that are essentially the same, someone who owns one and not the other will tear apart the one they don't own, finding every little immaterial flaw, and magnifying it. For all intents, it is exactly the same. They, however, don't care, and can magically conjure up all sorts of problems.

So it is with paintball style. Those who play speedball, etc., do so most likely because they enjoy it. But, some aren't willing to admit that it is just preference, and need to try and justify it so that they may be held in higher esteem, and can be part of a "better" group. Woodsballers can be the same, finding all sorts of arguments that make them seem individually superior, and part of a superior group. As woodsball has waned in popularity due to familiarity, it has more "opponents" who cause a snowball of other haters, and more animosity. If and when the current "in" formats wane, you will see the same treament with those.

Yes, that is it, I think. Many are not happy simply fulfilling their own whims, whilst casting off the judgement of others. They have a need to feel superior, and thus create illusions that allow them to feel superior.

I loathe the day that I need to justify my personal choices in something so inconsequential to the outcome of my life as style of play in paintball in the non-competetive arena.

And, for reference, I play any style I can. I am just happy to be out playing, although I prefer speedball, etc., to woods.

[Magluvr]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Methylphenidate
speed ball all the way. speed ball is the only way that paintball will ever be moved from the the catogory of activity to the category of an actual sport in the eyes of the general public.(i.e. people who are not familiar with the game). and it has nothing to do with being on television or fame.[/Q]

Addressing some points: (Know that this is not a "tu quoque" argument and if it appears so please excuse the poor writing.)

If it has nothing to do with television then how does speed ball spread to the masses any better than woodsball. I can only see it spreading more rapidly because it is soooo much more visible with tv and the like.
If it really bugs you, consider us like the people who play basketball at their house. Sure the court is nothing like the pro ones, no lines, much smaller, etc...
In this aspect I challenge any of you to find 5 woods ball games that are not set up with very strict rules, boundaries, you will see that all in all we are very ordered like speedballers.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Methylphenidate

speed ball is a sport because it requires things that all other sports do. things like skill, practice, strategy....
where in wood ball sure there is some strategy but for the most part it comes out to luck of the draw, as my friends say anything and everything can happen in wood ball.[/Q]

Woodsball actually requires greater skill than speedball in many ways. Woodsball does require skill, practice, strategy. You have to go far enough that you can handle any punch thrown at you. You don't know exactly where someone might be hiding, if they cheated and went outside the boundaries. You learn to think beyond the box. Your skills aren't limited to strictly the field limits. Essentially, you learn how to work a field good and then learn how to deal with surprises.
Strategy, eh? Well I can tell you something... My friends dad never has lost a game of paintball, ever! Why? He uses strategies, everyone one of us uses strategies as well, and face to face anyone of us could kill him. However, he honed his strategies so much in the army that he can't be beat. Don't let anyone fool you, skills, practice, and strategy are crucial elements to woodsball.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Methylphenidate
and you can be a totall newb with no experience and still kill the best player that has been playing for years, why because you went to walmart bought a plastic bush duct taped it to your back and hid in a ditch while you waited for someone to come by. tell me where is the skill in that.[/Q]

Not true at all! I tell you true that non-newb may have played many times but that doesn't make him a good player. (Don't make connections where you can't prove they exist!) Like I was saying years of playing doesn't make someone good at paintball. Take me for example, I have played paintball for about 6 years now. For the first 4 years I played every weekend, but I wasn't a good player. I was one of the worst players on the field, especially considering how much time I put into it. It has only been in the last two years that I have actually started becoming a better player. (I'm still not that great either)

To answer the question bluntly. There is no skill in that, and there is no skill in that other player either, despite his "years" of experience. Any good woodsballer would not have been fooled, and they WOULD have eliminated the novice.

Originally posted by Methylphenidate

how did he practice and study and refine his game to dress up like a bush and shoot people as they walk by. that is not a sport my friend that is a hobby.

This last little tid bit of yours is irrelevant once you have read the articles, and you realize the err. And don't even think to say, "I don't believe anything you just said". Because its not a matter of belief; it is a fact! And facts can only be accepted or rejected, not believed.

[Magluvr]

Please don't miss understand me either. I am not pro speedball, I am not pro woodsball; I am pro-paintball.

I would simply like in my last post to have touched that woodsball is not inferior to speedball.

Both are great types of paintball, each has different skill emphases, neither one will lack a skill required in the other. One will simply emphasize certain aspects of those skills over other skills.

[Duck Hunt]

The field that I play at has more woodsball than speedball fields. They have 2 airbag fields and one barrel field. Then theres about 10 woodsball fields and a village field. I personally love both styles of play because the require different thinking, I love variety. I have bunkered many an opponent with a stock tippmann 98, and yes even a prolite when I rented, because I had some skill (not trying to brag =) Buuuuuut, I now use an E marker as easily in speedball and in woodsball. I can't really choose which I like better, I love stalking around in the woods and being as quite as possible. Theres nothing like circle the field and sneaking up behind the opposite team and nailing the in the butts =) But then theres nothing like hearing that whistle blow and sprinting to your bunker while paint flies allllllll over the place.

Now heres my gripe. My sports intrests are limited. Its been, Hockey untill my Bruins traded everyone good on they're team, I have always loved Nascar, buuuuuut it has become very "commercial" you could say. And then theres paintball. Paintball is a sport:

Sport - Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

An active pastime; recreation.

You play play football in an open field and its a sport, you can play basketball in a driveway and its a sport, you can play bass ball in your house with pillows =) and its a sport, you can play paintball in the woods its still a sport.

A SPORT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ON TV WITH MAJOR SPONSERS AND RUDE PLAYERS TO BE A SPORT.

The problem is not making paintball look like a sport to the majority who doesn't know, its making the majority realize that paintball IS a sport.

Thats my 2 cents.

Sean "Duck Hunt"

[Evil1]

I personally prefer speedball type games, but it is really alot of fun to play in the woods some times, especially when you have alot of people playing.

[fallout11]

Funny that this discussion should come up.

Anybody watch the Discovery Channel's show "Tactical to Practical" recently?

According to the show (translation: the general public's perception), Paintball (and Airsoft, too) evolved directly from the US military's tactical training exercises ("war games", with Miles gear).

They then showed both, with the paintball portion being a speedball game featuring San Francisco area players in brightly colored gear, and then proclaimed that paintball was practically the same thing as Army war games.

Hmmm....

This is a perfect illustration that from John. Q. Public's perception:
1) Woods games or speedball, doesn't matter.
2) Mil-sim looking "guns" versus brightly colored e-markers, doesn't matter.
It's all "playing war", either way.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Thing is, at a few of my local fields, they only staff enough refs for the speedball fields, and even when they DO have enough refs to go out to the woodsball fields, they rarely gravitate in that direction.

Woe is the field that disownes the players of old.

It almost seems that if I want to play on Sat/Sun its speedball or nothing. I blame this first on the team kiddies most fields use for refs on the weekends. I have actually got made fun of by this ~14 year old ref for wanting to play a few games of woodsball (I'm 22). I hate the feeling that some of the better fields are now "team fields", and if your not down to "practice" with the local homefield hosers, then you are not welcome.



Just my 2 cents.

[Creative Mayhem]

Tyger, we're playing where? Lemme grab my pack, I'm down...