A disturbing trend...

[nerobro]

If you're not crawling in speedball you're missing an imporant trick :-)

I still like woods ball. when I have 2-3 cases of paint to shoot, I LOVE woods ball. My biggest gripe is how much paint woods ball eats up. I need to do it more..... I've lost my ability to tree walk.

[nate2k191]

i usually use about the same paint per game when i play woods, i dont go thru more than a case by myself normally, but then again, my x-valve and ult will be here soon, and that may change

[Chojin Man]

Originally posted by nerobro
If you're not crawling in speedball you're missing an imporant trick :-)

I still like woods ball. when I have 2-3 cases of paint to shoot, I LOVE woods ball. My biggest gripe is how much paint woods ball eats up. I need to do it more..... I've lost my ability to tree walk.

what is tree walking?

[Severe]

Originally posted by Chojin Man


what is tree walking?

Since this is Tyger's thread, it's only fair to give his website a plug here.

This will answer that very question, and give you a much better idea of how to do it:

WebDogRadio Show 18 'Soft Cover'

Btw, that's the hi-res version weighing in at 6.2meg.

Enjoy,

Steve

[Furby]

This is an old debate, but I like the stance Tyger is taking with it...like it or not, there are two main factions within the sport/hobby. The PB2X/Crossfire magazines are a case in point, and perhaps Josh doesn't want to admit the reality of the situation and move on. Obviously Mr. Amodea has. Don't get me wrong, it's not a slam on Josh...quite the opposite...I'd prefer that we were all one big happy family singing Koombayaa and then shooting each other, but the reality of the situation is that it is not. Right or Wrong, it's reality, and that's what we deal with.

That having been said, I'll second Tyger's motion that we stipulate that there's a sport of paintball and a hobby of paintball and move on.

For the record, I enjoy the sport and hobby. I don't discriminate...as long as I'm shooting at someone, I'm happy.

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by jayloo
The saying "different strokes for different folks" comes to mind here. But it seens not everyone has an open mind due to ego and the like.

Personally I do not like woods ball but if its that or nothin than woods ball it is.

I'm the same way, but about speedball. I personally don't like speedball, but if it's speedball or no paintball, then speedball it is.

I'd rather play paintball than not play paintball .

[shartley]

[sbpyro]

Woodsball or speedball. It doesn't need to be a choice. I started out playing woodsball. I have played speedball and not too bad for someone who doesn't like to have to run. But a bunch of guys that I know who are on speedball teams still like to get out in the woods and play some woodsball.
A really balanced player can go out and use the skills picked up from playing speedball in woodsball. There are also skills from woodsball that can translate over into speedball such as known where the opponent is without seeing them. People complain about wasting paint on both types of paintballing. I see it in speedball but that is because of covering while your teammates move. The same thing happens in woodsball, but occasionally you will have players shoot in a general direction since they do not know where exactly the paint is coming in from. (This was a tactic used in WWII, shoot to keep the enemy down while another group moved in on them and viceversa).
I think when it really comes down to it the only difference between woodsball and speedball is terrain.

[bryceeden]

I play and love both(I put scenario and woods ball together) even though I prefer speedball. That being said, I think its alot like the Mag/Cocker thing. It seems to be an internet problem and because on most net forums speedball is the cool thing people pretend that thats all they do. I have in one case been told by a person on the net that if you don't play speedball your not playing paintball, and should just sell all your gear and play Airsoft, a few weeks later rhis person came to my field, and when deciding what to play next he said speed ball sucks and theres no skill involved, and he wouldn't play unless it was woods ball. I don't think this is the only case where people want to look cool on the net, but are compleatly different in person.

[cledford]

I agree with Shartley's statement. Furthermore, when the "sport" of paintball started televised, professional level competitions used to take place exclusively in the woods - there were no speed ball fields then. Woodsball predates speedball by a number of years and if we're requiring professional teams, national leagues and tourneys, and television coverage to be considered a "sport" then woodsball was a sport before speedball was even thought of. There my not have been a lot of TV coverage - but it occurred from time to time.

All of this talk about sport vs. hobby, being taken "seriously", getting on "TV", going "main stream" all compels me to ask, to what end? What is missing? Where are we going that we haven't arrived yet? Especially with the younger crowd I see a movement to nowhere, because of the ambiguity (or complete lack of an idea) of what is to be achieved. There seems to be this mantra, "When we finally go legit all will be perfect." But what is legit/mainstream/accepted? We've got a multi-million dollar a year pastime, one which boasts international play on many levels of competition, companies exclusively and successfully dedicated sport, and thousands of sanction locations to play around the world. We've got paid professionals who fly around the WORLD to play, heroes and villains, tournament held in such exotic locals as Aruba, and even score boards now.

What exactly are we missing that we will get from "acceptance", "mainstream", and additional "coverage?"

Will prices go down any further? I think not, and I actually expect the equipment costs to start to rise. There is a saturation of competing products in the market right now and economics dictate that eventually that needs to change. Paint is also nearly at cost, field fees (given razor thin profits and huge insurance costs) are also pretty reasonable. There are (off the top of my head) 8 major paintball magazines in print - several internationally. At any one time at least 2 can be found on every news stand I visit. There is a huge online retail presence, every locality seems to have at least one "brick and mortar" and many areas have several field locations to choose from. (Heck, I've got 5 within an hours drive, 3 within 20 minutes...) Gear is now being sold in a NUMBER of large retailers - Wal-Mart, Dicks, Galyans, Sports Authority to name a few.

So what's left? What are we missing that it is necessary to say one style of play is holding back/hurting another. I'd like all of the guys who support speedball only or who think woods ball/scenario is hurting speedball to tell me 2 things:

1) Where is paintball going that it hasn't reached yet?

2) How is any stigma attached by the continued play in the woods preventing this from happening?

-Calvin

[werd]

Im sorry nate but thats sounds dumb

[MarkM]

I also began playing in the woods, and in my country this is still the introduction to paintball.
The media will tend to use sup-air pics as they are generally clearer but for people to moan about holes in barricades etc within a woods situation is rather short sighted..if you have a barricade like that then move or position yourself so you don't get hit.
A common assumption made by Speedball players is that you need more paint within the woods...to some extent they are correct but only because you have to actually aim to hit someone as that twig is always the one you hit...on a supair field they just shoot a rope of paint and zone it in..can't do that in the woods.
What you rarely see is people crawling on a supair field...strange as there are still crawling lanes on a great many field setups.
In todays world with the super fast electro and mechanical markers (they are generally quicker than the first incarnations) you will always get people talking in a negative way about woods and the same in reverse.
I am not saying you need to play woods to understand how the game has evolved but you do need to be aware that if it wasn't for the woods then speedball would not exist.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Alls I have to say is that I loved paintball WAY before speedball fields were erected, though I'm not sure I'll love paintball after the push to legitimize it as a "sport" is over.

I dont think that all the bad behaviour on and around the speedball field has any better impact on the game than the "mil-sim" woodsballers.

I personally could care less if speedball dissapeared. Take me back to the trenches!

[cledford]

Originally posted by spleefstylez
Alls I have to say is that I loved paintball WAY before speedball fields were erected, though I'm not sure I'll love paintball after the push to legitimize it as a "sport" is over.

I dont think that all the bad behaviour on and around the speedball field has any better impact on the game than the "mil-sim" woodsballers.

Excellent point - I NEVER saw most of what goes on today 7 or 8 years ago. Heck even walk-on speedball players are cheating like the pros these days

-Calvin

[Sir_Brass]

what's wrong with milsim? It's just another style of play, just like speedball, woodsball, and scenario. Personally, I'd LOVE to play pball with a mil-sim team if I ever get the chance.