Dead Mans Walk

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke

DMW is legal... This is understood.

Just be sure to expect a few mystery bonus balls in your direction... This should also be understood.

And my question still stands. What gives you the right to punish me for following the rules, but being sneaky? What give YOU the right to punish ME? Show me a rule. Show me something in black and white, and I'll back down. Show me where it says that overshooting an opponent is acceptable under circumstances of a DMW. You can't, no such rule exists.

If you're punishing me becasue you feel offended, that's malicious and intentional overshooting with intent to cause harm. It is NOT understood what gives you the right to torch somoeone for hurting your ego or feelings.

It's like telling someone that it's simply "understood" that tournament players will wipe, shoot hot, hit you with 40 paintballs when tey eliminate you because they want to see blood flowing down your throat, and they'll cheat their grandmothers out of their panties.

It's also not "understood" that rec-players will only play in the woods, only shoot Tippmans, will crank up their guns, wear sunglasses for eye protection, and will wear grease facepaint under their ghillie suit.

Ok, A little related to the DMW, but a diffrent scenario : Rules of the day allow, and encourage, lying about your team color. "If you're wearing your armband, you can lie about your team color." is the exact quote.

As the situation occoured, a white player camps out and lets the whole blue team pass him by on their way to the white fort. When they're all past him, he cradles his paintgun in his arms, using the barrel to hide his armband on his left arm. When he approaches the back of the blue team line, he waves happily to them and asks what's going on. After gaining their trust, he proceeds to barrel tag (more like shoulder tap "Rambo") 15 players before the other team understands what's going on.

Should this player ALSO be bonus balled into oblivion for being sneaky? It's not against the rules, it's only "less than honest" tactics. Just like the DMW. It's preying on the opponent's trust and belief that "bad guys" can be behind them, similar to the belief that a player is out. And like the DMW, the opposing players bought it.

-Tyger

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Tyger


What give YOU the right to punish ME?

-Tyger

Listen, I'm not going to try to explain to you any ethics or justifcation for a reaction you may receive if you DMW.

I'm just informing you what may happen.

Think of it as your friendly neighborhood service announcement:

Some paintball players may wipe...

Some paintball players may spin and shoot AFTER they've been bunkered, trying for a 1-for-1 even though it was obvious they were shot first...

Some upstanding law abiding citizens may loot when there are no cops around during a disaster...

Some inmate may kill a child molester in jail...

If you pull a DMW, you may be on the receiving end of someone's bonus ball...

The US invaded Iraq...

If you hit a homerun off Roger Clemens, and show him up by slowly struting a homerun troot, you may find yourself on the deck with a headache the next time you come to bat...

There's no "right" to do any of these things.

Some things are just inevitable in life...

Deal with it. It's your choice.

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by Tyger


And my question still stands. What gives you the right to punish me for following the rules, but being sneaky? What give YOU the right to punish ME? Show me a rule. Show me something in black and white, and I'll back down. Show me where it says that overshooting an opponent is acceptable under circumstances of a DMW. You can't, no such rule exists.

If you're punishing me becasue you feel offended, that's malicious and intentional overshooting with intent to cause harm. It is NOT understood what gives you the right to torch somoeone for hurting your ego or feelings.

It's like telling someone that it's simply "understood" that tournament players will wipe, shoot hot, hit you with 40 paintballs when tey eliminate you because they want to see blood flowing down your throat, and they'll cheat their grandmothers out of their panties.

It's also not "understood" that rec-players will only play in the woods, only shoot Tippmans, will crank up their guns, wear sunglasses for eye protection, and will wear grease facepaint under their ghillie suit.

Ok, A little related to the DMW, but a diffrent scenario : Rules of the day allow, and encourage, lying about your team color. "If you're wearing your armband, you can lie about your team color." is the exact quote.

As the situation occoured, a white player camps out and lets the whole blue team pass him by on their way to the white fort. When they're all past him, he cradles his paintgun in his arms, using the barrel to hide his armband on his left arm. When he approaches the back of the blue team line, he waves happily to them and asks what's going on. After gaining their trust, he proceeds to barrel tag (more like shoulder tap "Rambo") 15 players before the other team understands what's going on.

Should this player ALSO be bonus balled into oblivion for being sneaky? It's not against the rules, it's only "less than honest" tactics. Just like the DMW. It's preying on the opponent's trust and belief that "bad guys" can be behind them, similar to the belief that a player is out. And like the DMW, the opposing players bought it.

-Tyger

You're either missing the point or using the wrong vocab.

The DMW is the reason for bonus balls existing. To make sure that everybody who's walking "off" the field is truly out. Not DMWing.

As for people turning around and blasting someone who DMWs them... they're idiots. That's the type of person you aim for off the break. If they can get it by you, then good for them. But I'm going to see to it that you don't get by me.

[SN0BL1ND]

Ok... I've been watching this for a while now and I think I'm seeing the split (once again) between the rec / tourny mentalities...

I've never been in a tourny, and after reading about the "normal" styles of tourniment play (i.e. wiping, bonus balling, playing on... ect), I'm not sure I want to. I enjoy rec play; I prefer it to be in a scenario, but I won't turn my nose up at a day of speedball. I also realize that the occasional, accidental bonus ball will happen...

I've never intentionally bonus balled someone, but I will keep my eye on them 'till I see a plug/condom, or the ref call 'em. Let's face it, the DMW is a tactic that can work and is a legal move.

To my (somewhat warped) point of view, if a player is heading toward thier dead zone with marker held high and fishing for the plug, there is no reason to bonus ball them. If the ref has called them out, there is no reason to bonus ball them. If they walk toward your side of the field without any of these things happening, they should expect to be a target and be hit. However, if a player DMW's me, I have enough respect for the ballsiness of the move to be a lot madder at myself than at them. If I get DMW'd, it's my fault!

My point of view is that if I get too many bonus balls as I'm walking off the field, I take that as an invitation to rejoin the game in progress and practice bunker moves...

[camilion705]

One time in a rec game I was walking through some bushes with two other little kids who were behind me and all of a sudden someone opened up and the two kids said, "We're out!" I however didn't say anything, because I hit the dirt a lot faster than they dit and wasn't hit. So I got up with the kids and started walking. They had their plugs in with the barrels in the air while I had no plug and the gun to my side with one hand.

It turns out there were 4 to 5 guys who came out of their bushes and started advancing up thinking all three of us were out. I walked behind them all and had a perfect opportunity to tag all of them (they were all bunched up in a group) but I couldn't do it. It just felt wrong!

I think DMW is a very dishonest way to play. Although anyone who does it successfully probably feels pretty good about shootin' up multiple people pretty easily once the walking is done. I think that DMWing and things like that was okay back in the day of pumps and heavy trigger pulss, but is not the way the game should be played in this day and age of paintball. There is just too much potential for injurey with these electros everyone has now. I mean, while DMWing you must be pretty jumpy considering you are walking out in the open, so most likely that person is gonna let loose a long string after he gets to the place he wants.

[fallout11]

Well said, camilion705!

[titan aresta]

Originally posted by camilion705
I think that DMWing and things like that was okay back in the day of pumps and heavy trigger pulss, but is not the way the game should be played in this day and age of paintball. There is just too much potential for injurey with these electros everyone has now. I mean, while DMWing you must be pretty jumpy considering you are walking out in the open, so most likely that person is gonna let loose a long string after he gets to the place he wants.

Originally posted by myself
what next? it will be unethical to eliminate the opposition because their egos might be hurt?
maybe we should stop shooting paintballs and start aggressive negotiations...

the way I see it, if I'm not sure if a player walking on the field is out or not, and I can't ask them directly, I will shoot them once or twice just to make sure.
I do not understand the idea that you have to shoot that person 10 or 20 times (ie. bonus balling) because you don't seem to understand that it only takes one ball.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by titan aresta


I do not understand the idea that you have to shoot that person 10 or 20 times (ie. bonus balling)

Wow... how things get exaggerated!

"Bonus ball" does not mean 10-20 extra balls...

It's "bonus ball"

not "bonus hopper"

not "bonus pod"

not "bonus case"

[titan aresta]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke

Wow... how things get exaggerated!

"Bonus ball" does not mean 10-20 extra balls...

It's "bonus ball"

not "bonus hopper" (around 170 balls)

not "bonus pod" (around 140 balls)

not "bonus case" (around 2000 balls)

heh, who's exaggerating now?

[Jack & Coke]

...pssst titan, that was a joke

[Tyger]

I can see my question is being expertly dodged.

So, in fact, nothing gives you the right to "bonus ball" in this situation, you just know that you have to do it to teach me a lesson.

This makes you no better than the "punks" doing the DMW. They think they're right becasue there's no rule against it, you feel you're right becasue it's your moral duty to stop people from doing questionable tactics. Thank you Dr. Laura for the hypocritical morality lesson. (For those who didn't know, she was in a porn video, then years later preached the evils of pornography.)

And I'll take your friendly threat to my health and well being as nessary.

It's nice to see the DMW put in the same category as prison murders and rioting. So what I walk away from this with is "People are @!*^*!@ and are all immature brats who want immediate gratification when thy feel slighted." Ok, fine. If paintball is filled with immaturity, fine. I'll remember that too.

And, BTW, intentionally hitting a batter can get you fined by the MLB. And don't think that other pitchers won't give Clements a little "chin music" too, and suck up the fines to get even.

You want to do something? Lobby the NPPL to standardise rules on exiting the field, other fields will follow suit. Until then, live with the DMW because we're not going to stop a LEGAL tactic while it exists. You want change, make it happen.

-Tyger

[teufelhunden]

It's NOT a bonus ball if you turn and blast someone if they've DMW'd you!!!


As much as it's a legal tactic to DMW, it's just as legal to hit someone who isn't clearly signaling that they're out of the game. Which goes back to what I said- if you're walking anywhere, I'm not going to search you for an armband. I'm going to shoot unless you're clearly indicating you've been removed from the game, i.e. a hand/marker up.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by teufelhunden
It's NOT a bonus ball if you turn and blast someone if they've DMW'd you!!!

Ok, hang on.

Are you saying it's OK to "spin and shoot" IF someoene tries a DMW, gets along side of you, and shoots you? OR are you saying that it's ok to shoot at someone attempting to DMW you, but has not reached you yet?

The latter is ok, everyone is still "live". The former, however, means you're out of the game and cheating. I'm just clarifying what you said here.

Perhaps a lot of this argument is a lack of definitions?

-Tyger

[~WarpedRT#2~]

DMW is perfectly acceptable. So allof you saying that the DMW is stupid and the DM should get blasted are saying, taht, if I beat yoiu in poker, or an Atati game, you get the right to pummel me outside? Anyone who says that they would bonus ball me after I do a DMW on them is a little child, who cant take it that someone outsmarted them.

This is a thinking mans game incase you didnt realize it. Just because someone is smarter than you doesnt mean you have the right to hurt them physically for it. Hey, lets go beat the hell out of Steven Hawking because he IS smarter tha me!! BONUS BALL STEVE! Just pathetic.

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by Tyger

Perhaps a lot of this argument is a lack of definitions?

-Tyger

Without a doubt. A bonus ball is shooting someone after they've already been called out or seem to have been called out.

Yes, I was saying that shooting someone before they reach you is 100% OK. People who spin and shoot are morons.