Lets Discuss Accuracy vs Fragile Paint

[apache]

variable air chamber

If you want variable air chamber, move the regulator from the back to the vert mount (as in MANY guns now) and use a screw to change the chamber volume.

As a sidenote separating the a/c and the reg would be good because you could balance the gun better and change the reg to an aftermarket one if you'd think it made difference, for example an LP Max-Flo.

(edit: I hope you can understand my English Sometimes I feel like I'm writing in English words but using Finnish word order )

[Miscue]

I want a gun with a magic switch on it. When my paint is working good, have it set to high efficiency. When my paint is sucking, set it to handle brittle paint. This way I'm not stuck with either situation.

[Butterfingers]

I dunno...

Originally posted by beam
I thought that the force of the actual bolt hitting the ball was negligible when compared to the force of the air mass hitting the ball.

In that case....foamie makes little difference. Oh, it may make some difference, but not as much as the pressure of the air hitting the ball.

I have to agree with those who have already said that they would prefer not to break paint.

Plus...aren't shockers like crazy quiet....a big plus for woods ballers.

In practice my foamie is great! I hate to throw a wrench (or spanner hehe I love brits! ) in the mix but the foamie works wonders for me at least.

Try shooting RPS slam in sub 30 degree weather and having NO breaks...

I did it today...

Foam is amazing...

[Oregon_pb_]

some people are now thinking low pressure guns aren't accurate...

My Shocker runs at 160psi in, it shoots darts. With having a dome trigger i can get prol 5-7 balls per second out the barrel. Very accurate gun since i don't ever break paint.

My Custom cockers runs at 360 in, it shoots darts as well. A MINOR amount but more accurate than my shocker at longe range. I can prol get around 7-9 bps out with the Hinge.

My emag on warp is extremly accurate, single shooting it i have put paintballs through holes no bigger than the paintball them selves at longe range. But when you pull strings of 10-12 bps the air/paint inside take control and control the flight of the ball, so it seems like there spreading out to a larger diameter at the end game.

But overall i think my shocker is one of the more accurate guns on the market. It doesn't break paint. (No need to carry a sqeeg my marker, it won't break).

So short of DGA making their own less brittle paintballs i'd like to see a LP gun.

[Dubstar112]

Freaks!

As for adjustability of a operating pressure: Make inserts for a valve like a freak. These inserts would go into the chamber dialating the opening to lower pressure, or making the chamber area smaller for increased consistency.. get my drift..(Im sure that there would be alot more to making this happen too..)

[Dubstar112]

Also, I think it would be nice to use the adjustability for cold weather when all guns have hard times.

[Nitroduck]

Apache , i don't mean to burst your bubble but.........

Adding a " lp " chamber or " voumizer" just changes how the gun looks , not preformance. The pressure in the valve is the exact same. I personally do own a volumizer , just for looks ( dye ). If a LP chamber does ANYTHING , its just gonna increase the ammount of air waiting to be shot and COULD reduce shootdown under rapid fire conditions. But on the other end.........the angel does have something that can sorta control valve pressure , its called dwell , it controls how long the hammer strikes valve , longer dwell means it hits the valve longer , puts more volume in barrel , and you can reduce pressure. Becasue of this , it effects ball brekage quite a bit ( if you turn valve dwell on a angel up , you'll break less paint than a shocker , and have about the same ammount of shots per tank as a shocker While if you turn it down , the gun becomes less tolerable to paint , but yelds more shots per tank.

[Dragoon]

I'd like to be able to shoot brittle paint.

I don't want paint in my barrel for any reason (loss of accuracy).

But I used to shoot an Angel and although I almost never broke paint I had a hard time hitting what I was aiming at. However this may just be due Angel, but because of how the Angel made me play. I shot more, aimed less, and could not site down the barrel easily.

It would be great to see a low pressure mag valve. Especially if I can interchange it with my current valves. That way I could have both, use one for brittle paint, the other for harder paint, and figure out which one I like better.

I would be willing to pay the same as for the current Retro valves.

Hope this helps AGD.

Douglas

[justinellery]

Adjustable pressure, I thought of that a long time ago and thought it would make tons of money. Well, I would give my Tippman, RT Pro, Spyder and my left.......well I'd give those guns anyway. As far as whether I'd rather have the low or high pressure, that would depend on the paint trends. Right now they seem to be getting more brittle but that could change. Adjustable pressure would be great. I might lose some cycle time making where I can't shoot as fast; but, I don't know the benefit of having a gun capable of shooting 26 balls per second when a loader can only keep up with 15 or so. Before you warp feeders go off about the number 15, just remember that warp is still fed by a loader, and that is 15 or so. anyways, sounds good so far.

[Temo Vryce]

Originally posted by Dragoon
I'd like to be able to shoot brittle paint.

I don't want paint in my barrel for any reason (loss of accuracy).

But I used to shoot an Angel and although I almost never broke paint I had a hard time hitting what I was aiming at. However this may just be due Angel, but because of how the Angel made me play. I shot more, aimed less, and could not site down the barrel easily.

It would be great to see a low pressure mag valve. Especially if I can interchange it with my current valves. That way I could have both, use one for brittle paint, the other for harder paint, and figure out which one I like better.

I would be willing to pay the same as for the current Retro valves.

Hope this helps AGD.

Douglas

Doug, I don't want you getting any better at aiming. It's hard enough playing against you in GTPL. If it helps you're not as bad a shot as you think you are. Target practice and snap shooting is one thing, but playing against you is something really different.

[Gunga]

Re: I've seen the video...

Originally posted by Royal Assassin
Ok, in the 720 vid they showed us AGD is making paintballs for the law. They also showed us that mammoth corridor... might I remind you of the dents in the door at the end of that corridor? I know, those were plastic shells.

Now that AGD has perfected the marker side of it, why not work on the balls?

So my question is... Why not develop balls? Surely they haven't been "perfected".

AGD does make 'Perfect Circle' paintballs which are made of plastic and don't have the large seam that your standard paintballs have. If I remember right, they found that having a paintball that is perfectly round didn't make much of a difference in accuracy or range.

As for the military rounds...well, it'd be nice, but there are millions of paintball guns out there that use one type of ammo, the .68 cal paintball. I'm not sure what the diameter of the military rounds are in comparison to your standard paintball, but they are shaped differently, so I assume that you wouldn't be able to just put them in your Mag/Cocker/Angel/etc. and fire away. Additionally, you wouldn't be able to use your current feed system (Revvy, Halo, Warp, etc) due to the shape of the military round. Not to mention that they'd be daaaaaaaaamn expensive to buy.

As you can see, it'd be VERY hard to have the industry and consumers switch to a new ammo standard. It's kind of like companies trying to replace the standard 3.5" floppy drive that comes with every computer. Iomega tried it with the Zip, Sony's tried it, Compaq's tried it...to no avail. The floppy is just too entrenched as a standard. I'd guess AGD would run into the same problem with trying to get all of paintball to switch to their military style paintball from the .68 caliber rounds we use today, despite the obvious advantages that the military round has.

[ShinyGuy]

My medium pressure marker shoots +-2fps at the crono. My friends ultra low pressure marker is not nearly as consistent. Because of this I can crono higher and have a longer range. It doesn't matter that he can shoot more brittle paint since he can't shoot it as far as I can. Granted, I have to hit something hard at maximum range to get a break but if I'm shooting at more than a mask, hopper or the occasional shoe I'll probably have plenty of other shots at that target.

[Paintchucker]

took a decade...

kinda off topic, but most of my friends and co-workers use CD-RW instead of floppies now. It did take a decade though... Hmmmm... Does that mean in 10 years that Emag will be the price of RT Pros or Minimags?

[M-a-s-sDriver]

Give me accuracy every time

Except for one instance that I can remember, I don't recall ever breaking a ball when I was just posted and shooting for accuracy,or single/double tap snap shooting. Every shot (past 5 years or so) that I remember breaking was either rapid firing, or shooting on the run. Although I sometimes like to just play a game and unload 1200 rounds of paint, I am a front type guy, and I like to set up my shots.
For instance, I have the same amount of success playing with my phantom as I do with my Mag or Angel, yet they are all equally accurate guns. I regulate all of them with a Palmer Stabilizer, and except for the Angel, I know exactly where to aim my shot. The only reason I have less luck with the Angel is because I have a hard time picking a place to aim on it with the vert feed and body shape, so I usually have to "walk" my rounds into where I am shooting.
So for me, I want accuracy. As odd as it sounds, I have learned to not break paint. But when I do, a quick swipe with a battle swab and Bobs-yer-uncle.
Here is something for you guys to throw around: Besides my Phantoms (I have had three), which have a total of about 2 breaks, while auto-triggering, my Mag is the most un-paint-breaking gun I have ever had. Now I know ya'll hate the ANS bolt, but it is what I use. I think the concave shape of the nose has to help to some extent to help the impact of the bolt on the ball. Although I have never bought into the venturi thing, I think the ANS has better ball break advantages than the stock set of bolts. Has AGD ever tested the stock bolts against ANS on this one variable?
On a side note, I was not going to buy another gun of any type for probably another 5 years. But when I saw the Extreme, warped, with the sight window completely open over the top of the gun, I decided I would pick one up this year.
I personnaly think that one advantage is worth so much, and is truly revolutionary. I think that is something that is sorely overlooked by the Vert feed guys.

Brent Jackson, PFB.

[Riot[Z-Grip]]

To start my response off, I would like to detail the position I am coming from. As we can see from previous posts, different people have different need from a paintball marker. Knowledge of my background as a paintballer should be given before my decision so that the decision can be taken correctly. (And AGD or whatever company could use this information in marketing whatever product comes from this discussion.)

I first played 2 1/2 years ago and have become seriously active in the sport during the last year. I am 16 years old and I make approximately $120 a week. Paintball is not my only expense. I currently play front positions on a Novice level team that is entering our first tournament series this year. My main concern of a marker is "How does it perform for a front player?". I do occasionally play mid-back and a concern that comes in to a close second is "Can I shoot lots of paint fast if I need to?". I don't like to get tagged out, so I spend more time behind my bunker than I probably should. I'm fast and smallish 5'8" 130lbs, I can get close to my opponent. I'll carry a squeegee if I need to, but I'd prefer not to.

Desired Marker Qualities

• Compactness
• ROF
• Accuracy (Every ball needs to count-less paint used=less money spent)
• Minimum number of ball breaks (same reason as above)

So I'll take the Medium Pressure marker. I can deal with a few ball breaks if it means that I'm accurate, but I need to break as few as possible to conserve paint. I need it to be compact so I can play the small bunkers. I don't want to spend a lot of money at this time. I would rather be able to add affordable mods to my gun to improve it's performance than to have to shell out cash for a whole new marker at this time (no matter what the benefits).

This said, I love my mag. As you can see it's the perfect gun for me:

• Affordable
• Upgrades give a lot of bang for the buck
• Great performance overall!

But then again, for some reason in about 3-4 cases, I've only chopped twice and broken down the barrel 0 times (that weren't my fault shooting the barrel plug). If you can throw a slew of upgrades at me for decent prices that will make my gun better and that I can buy over a period of time when I have the money, I will shower you with praise. Right now I don't need the low pressure. If for some reason I start breaking 1/200 or 1/100 balls down the barrel, I will probably change my tune.

Sorry if this got completely off topic, but as usually, my writing ran away with me. Hopefully some of this will be useful.

-Riot

Edit: Don't admit to wiping, even for background information purposes, it just brings ridicule.