We Want A PneuMag Frame!!! Email PTP Campaign

[RRfireblade]

DW obviously thought there was a big enough market for a new Mag frame or else they wouldn't have put so much time and money into it.

I don't think Tom bailed because the mag's future was grim. I think he bailed because of the industry it's self. If the future was so grim, why would Zupe even bother buying up the inventory and try to keep AGD alive?

There is a good fight out there, just we as players need to make sure the indutry stays in check.

I also think that with some of the rumors of rule changes, a fast mechanical gun might be the way to go. So this frame very well might have saved the mag, but we will never know now.

K, here we go:

1) DW is a 1-2 man operation, to them 50 sales is a big deal. (Same goes for Tunaman a RogueFactor BTW) They can and afford to cater directly to AO, in fact AO is they're primary market and possibly only market.They would likely never had existed in thier current form without AO.

To me, 50 sales mean I don't even make payroll that week.

2) Zupe has pretty much been running AGD almost since the beginning,it was either this or find a new job...basically.

3) I agree about how great a Mech gun can be.The bottom line in Tourny's tho are this;
A) If mech guns start to compete w/ electros for ROF, they WILL get capped as well.
I've already developed a PnueMech that will Ramp...just how long do you think
they'er gonna let a 35bps Mech gun slide?
B) Electro's will always be the main focus for retaillers,that's where the big money is, and
the big margins are.
C) Electro's are far simpler to build cheap,assemble and retail.Not sure yet how much
more than the PnueMech but my guess is a good amount.
D) Yes, we will know 'cause there will be a Mag version if for no other reason but to see
how many of the " I must have one" 's actually cough up the cash and get one.If
your so confident about the potential sales, give me your addy and I'll send you the
bill for any fo them I get stuck with in the end.

I believe DW was looking to expand the hAir into other types of markers as well, but don't hold me to that

He was,he's said it. No question.

[warbeak2099]

Jay's got a point. How many people on AO are actually going to cough up the dough for this? Probably not everyone who was all excited about the HAir vid. Let's face it, not everyone here is going to get it. For PTP, the amount of people that do buy it will most likely be relatively small. Maybe around 100 if not less. Let's do a poll on who would buy the pneu frame:

Yes, I have the dough in hand and I'd buy it
Yes, but I don't have the money right now
Yes, but I probably would never be able to come up with that much money (~$300)
No, I am not interested and/or do not have the dough
Maybe, I have the dough but I'd have to think about it a little more
Maybe, I don't really have the dough and I'm undecided


Shall I post this in pbtalk and shut everyone up who's whining and will most likely never buy it even if it comes out?

[the larch]

Ok, let's be blunt. I've been playing since 91. My first semi was a mag.
AGD, while a great company is not focused on us. This idea will not happen unless they make it happen and compete.
Really, it IS on them to make this work. It IS their choice.
A Pneumag (neat name) could blow away the industry from a RELIABILITY AND SPEED stand point. Will it?
WHERE IS AGD IN ALL THIS? It seems that recently they are "waiting for things to settle."
They are losing any chance at a market while this is happening.

Do you really think that PTP will invest in this while AGD isn't confident enough in their own product to actively market it?

[RRfireblade]

This whole thing feels like you are threatening the one market that is trying to support you.(?)



We can't buy products are not being produced. If you don't continue to stimulate the market with NEW products it will die. Personally I think if Tom would have introduced the lvl 10 and the ULE trigger 8 years ago AGD wouldn't be in the slump they are today. The stiff trigger and the chopping is why people gave it up in the first place.

This new frame has the capability of turning AGD around, or at least give them a new start.
Frankly it feels like PTP is standing in the way.

Your pretty funny.

Let's see if I have this correct since you seem to have it all figured out:

Mag dealers all over the country INCLUDING AGD with Mags in stock,seeing nothing but a steady decline in marker sales, MSRP price reductions ,the manufacturer themselves cutting there direct pricing,often leaving dealers with old stock that must be sold at a cut profit or loss of, in some cases...that's if they even could be sold at all...complete lack of anything new on the horizon...a decressing marker lineup overall...and nothing more than handfull of 'new' upgrades for existing markers,most of which came years after the need for them was expressed and after which the majority of original die hard fans had already moved on to 'new' and different products.

Hmm, yeah....it was my fault.



ADDED:

OH, and I'm not threatening anybody. I'm challenging you to rise to the occasion and make your voice heard through your spending dollars.If that had been done 5-7 years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

AND BTW, I'm not exactly sure why you think it's OUR responsibilty to "save" AGD? It's not MY company...you want to save them? Send them a check for 100K and start buying the workers lunch on Fridays. :)

[RRfireblade]

Then let them do it!

Oh I see, you now represent DW?

Cool,get in contact with our attorney and we'll get something on paper.

[thecavemankevin]

Do you really think that PTP will invest in this while AGD isn't confident enough in their own product to actively market it?

BINGO!!

i love AGD as much as any of you, but with the "waiting on the market to settle" attitude, do they expect sales to increase? For the majority of the 90's AGD concentrated on the military market with training tools and riot supression items. So while they did support paintball durring those times, they didn't pay close enough attention to what the paintball market wanted. AGD failed to listen to their market and create what they demanded, until it was too late. The ULE line of products that has inspired some of a reprise in the mag demand is just too late.

So while most of us here on AO, myself included (although i am not so sure anymore) have dreamed of a mag revolution, i doubt it is very likely now. However there is a potential product on the horizon in developement by PTP. Why are you all beating up on RR? He is trying to make a pnue frame possible for the mag....which is what you all seem to want. I am sorry it is not being made DW, but hey that is life. PTP apperantly had theirs in development many years before DW, so they are rightfully the owners of the patent and should be the ones to develope the pnue frame for the whole of the paintball market. And if they choose to develope it for the cocker first, well i think we all know it is their right. But pissing off RR and PTP certainly wont help you get the frame for the mag any sooner. If i was RR, i would be makeing the mag frame less of a priority because of this very thread....but that is just me.

remeber that old addidge, all good things come to those who wait.

I sit patiently waiting for a mag pnue frame from PTP. Thanx RR for all you do.

[WARPED1]

Um, PTP has already stated somewhere that a pneu trigger for mags is coming out. morons

[Teamslayer76]

Hmmm.. My simple statment here is that us Non-Emag users love our mags and just don't want to "electout" in paintball. We don't want to jump in the electro bandwagon. So were doing as much as possible [rather what we can do] to get this this pneu-trigger out.
And yes I admit I buy mags alot , in the past 3 months I have gotten 3 new mags and I'd kill to have hAirs or PTP's trigger on em.


And besides you get mech bragging rights.
Also chicks dig mags.

[J.James]

Another thing to consider for slower sales is durability . My classic valved mag still works like new, and the thing is ten years old . Unfortunately(or fortunately) thats what stops me from buying a BRAND new one, which over a broader scale would cause slow marker sales. Plus your AVERAGE young gun goin to the store w/ mom & pops is either buying bottom of the shelf plastic junk or they'r gettin a $1700.00 Shocker w/ all the SHINY parts . Wich leaves the mag pretty stagnant . Just look what happend to the new autocockers, next thing you kno they'll be sellin them @ Walmart next to the other clones . Regardless of who will make the triggr keep in mind all of the MAGS that are out there , new and old(remember AGD has been building markers for almost 15 years). So theres are alot of POTENTIAL buyers for a pnuMAGtic trigger . It's unfortunate that PTP & D/W could not resolve this cuz personally I was inline for the hAIr triggr myself . But remember people this is between two businesses and is not a life or death thing, and hopefully PROTEAM will release a product that is as good or bettr. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

[bunker17]

Anyway hope the new year brings a lot of nice things (including some pneumatic trigger before may) by the way i think i do put my cash where my mouth is or the 22 mags in boxes that are behind me are just lying anyways fighting about this won't do much PTP will be waiting for the frame is the only thing we can do

[frontlinep8tbal]

anyone for a pump game???

Seriously, its been an amazing turn of events during the last 10 years with the sport. Would be nice to have a simple game like those late 80's. ONe could hope...

I hope that the frame, from whatever source, does come out. This will in return profit the designers (nicad), maybe spark life into agd sales again by having retailers re-invest in agd products and parts for the mag and ultimately get more people to the fields. This helps everyone out.

Honestly, I dont know if many others are in the same boat as myself when looking for parts, goto different shops local to your area and see only boneyard parts for mags, that wouldnt even help the least while looking at the showcases to find brand "*INSERT OTHER MARKER HERE*" parts galore. This is because we the consumers are not investing into the particular companies enough to warrant them to provide the products we want. When the day is said and done all buisnesses care about is numbers. Just the same with the patents issues. Yes it may seem unethical to many what a number of these companies are doing by limiting or shelving other companies from producing possbile new markets, but its all about dollar bills before the consumer.

This following paragraph is aimed to all that cannot see from a buisness point of view with DW, SP, PTP, or any other company your taking your fustration out on because your not getting what you want.

IF your not having fun with what you have or getting the products you want for your marker, move onto something else that can make the sky rain with paint and has more options then a barbie doll.. IMHO the mag evolved into an extremely solid efficient gun that needs very little maintence. This is the major factor keeping me from parting with my setup despite the fact that gettting anything for it is now increasingly difficult. ROF doesnt mean anything if you cant hit your target. Its amazing on the amount of people that do not understand this concept. Majority of players are rec-ballers. After the days done and you go home and count your welts and the left over dollars in your wallet, your out there to have fun. Practice your skills, work on improving them everytime you play, and you find out that you dont need the 26bps to keep up with a 2k gun that sprays and prays. See you all on the field. :)

FRANK

[rabidchihauhau]

Email Write-in Campaign

I'm starting my own email writing campaign.

I want everyone to write to Pro-Team Products right NOW and request that they don't license the pneu frame to anyone, ever.

Please encourage them to keep it to themselves;

Please ask PTP to hurry up and make a pneu trigger for the cocker and for the blow-back semi-autos.

Please ask them to make tens of thousands of them, so they can sell them at a competitive price and make a really good profit margin.

Then, maybe, when PTP has made some bank, the company will be able to afford being generous and can then make parts to support the 'mag niche market.

[shartley]

Another thing to consider for slower sales is durability . My classic valved mag still works like new, and the thing is ten years old . Unfortunately(or fortunately) thats what stops me from buying a BRAND new one, which over a broader scale would cause slow marker sales. Plus your AVERAGE young gun goin to the store w/ mom & pops is either buying bottom of the shelf plastic junk or they'r gettin a $1700.00 Shocker w/ all the SHINY parts . Wich leaves the mag pretty stagnant . Just look what happend to the new autocockers, next thing you kno they'll be sellin them @ Walmart next to the other clones . Regardless of who will make the triggr keep in mind all of the MAGS that are out there , new and old(remember AGD has been building markers for almost 15 years). So theres are alot of POTENTIAL buyers for a pnuMAGtic trigger . It's unfortunate that PTP & D/W could not resolve this cuz personally I was inline for the hAIr triggr myself . But remember people this is between two businesses and is not a life or death thing, and hopefully PROTEAM will release a product that is as good or bettr. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

[RRfireblade]

Luke:

This will be my last response to you in this regard,

1) Mags have been a dying breed for years, AGD has not been able to do anything to change that and it's simple not anybody elses responsibility but thiers. Go wine at Zupe to cut a deal with DW (they're the one's who bailed on DW),go whine at Zupe to cut a deal with PTP,go whine at Zupe to come out with a product that will bring Mags back,go whine at Zupe to build a new Electro,go whine at Zupe to get more Tourny exposure.....

2) The Law is the Law, a Patent is Patent...doesn't matter if Microsoft is infringing or some young kid selling lemonade on the corner.If you've invested many thousands of dollars in the Patent,you simple must enforce it accross the board.We are not the boy scouts,we are forced to deal with legal product issues everyday and we are now where near the size of the 'Big" guys, why is DW so special? He clearly stated he was aimed at all other possible markets, you think he's a boy scout too? He's going to biuld,buy and sell where ever he can,Mags were only the begining. How do you know if his 'other' versions took off more than the Mag,he wouldn't put the Mag on the back burner?He can only build so many so fast,where do you think his priority would be,50 sales here at A.O. or 500 at A.I.R. ?

I'm not sure why this keeps getting so twisted, I'll try one last time...

The Mag market sucks because the paintball buying public as whole does not buy,use or want Mags or Mag products.I'm not talking about the small handfull of people on this Forum, it's the the 'whole' paintball market new and old.When I used the word "YOU", I was refering to the you the consumer. Try this just for grins..next time your out playing ask how many 'newbs' want a Mag or even know what one is. Now ask them about an Autocker...an Angel...an Intimidator. Now you know why Mags are dead and what is killing them. Go ahead and whine at Zupe about that too.

That's as clear as I can possibly explain it,I guess if you just don't understand perhaps apparently you never will. If that's the case,I really don't have the motivation to continue to explain the way business works to you so I guess it'll just have to be.

Hope you had a nice New year.

Jay.

[Lee]

Rumor has it that there is no cap on manual guns. So if you can fire an manual gun faster than the cap, you are golden. This is just the rumor and we'll see when the season starts.

and once (or if ) it's seen that pneumatically assisted mech frames can exceed the bps limit, there will be a rule dealing with that, possibly a new marker category with it's own regulations.
just because it's not electric doesn't mean it can't be governed by a ruling.

as to the tone of this thread: i liked the idea of the hAIR. i like it alot less now due to all the p'ing & m'ing.
no one owes anyone a thing. buy from ptp or don't. everyones little worlds will still circle the sun.