We Want A PneuMag Frame!!! Email PTP Campaign

[Lee]

I don't think Tom bailed because the mag's future was grim. I think he bailed because of the industry it's self. If the future was so grim, why would Zupe even bother buying up the inventory and try to keep AGD alive?

i think tom got while the getting was good and that zupe didn't buy a company.....he bought warehouse and shop space, machines and employees. theres no telling what his plans are. he could be waiting to piece it out a table ata time for all we know.

i also think zupes smart for not coming on here and telling us his plans. very few would like or agree with it no matter what they are and every closet genious on the forums would have to chime in with thier opinion of what he really should be doing.

who said he's trying to keep agd alive? if he said that on a thread somewhere, please link me to it because i apparently missed it.

[Timmee]

I really hope a pneumatic assist trigger frame comes out for the 'Mag, but one thing I'm still trying to figure out is, how is the idea patentable in the first place? The Vector, 'Nova 700, and others have had pneumatic triggers for a long time. Also, Punisher made a pneumatic assist 'Mag quite a while ago. Don't these examples count as prior art, when determining whether a patent can be issued?

[Eric Cartman]

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Eric Cartman]

And FYI, we are open to agreements with 'Anyone' who wishes to manufacture a similar product in co-operation wtih PTP,it's not our fault that certain companies or people do not have the finacial resources to make that arrangement.

No, our patent was not denied.. (amazing how speculation is so easily stated as fact).
It is still going forward. It has been filed, in the system, and all that good stuff.

The decision is based compleatly on the financial/resources aspect.

Go wine at Zupe to cut a deal with DW (they're the one's who bailed on DW),go whine at Zupe to cut a deal with PTP

RR, that was on the 30th of Sept. Any idea of when we might see some video teasers of the mag version?

I'll try an do one as soon as I get the chance.

[RRfireblade]

:)


RRfireblade your posts do FEEL

I'm not sure why you get that 'feeling' from me. All I have been saying since the very begining is that even though the Pnuemag was NOT a priority with PTP initially, I've been doing everything I can to make it one....for them and for the loyal steadfast Maggers.

As far as you and me, all I was doing was trying to explain why such priorities exist...which seemed to be hard for you understand based on the questions,allegations and how you assigned blame for the plight of AGD. To that is all I can respond.Hopefully that is all clear and understandable now and the point of this thread can continue.

BTW,I don't take internet discussions personal so as far as you and me I don't see where there should be any problems...I hope there aren't, I definately never intended for them to be.If you got a bad feeling from me some how, I appologize, perhaps intent and inflection due get lost in text.

So....

Anything else?

[bunker17]

well fireblade i run the pol to see how would sell go if you would release the trigger today and you where right people are not ready to put their " dough" on the table for the frame right now the poll has 54 reply's and oly 13 of them got the money right now while 21 are interested yet don't have the money, 3 say they would never get that kind of money and the other people are undecided or don't want to buy for some other reasons.
Anywya i would like to have a frame

[luke]

I'm not sure why you get that 'feeling' from me. All I have been saying since the very begining is that even though the Pnuemag was NOT a priority with PTP initially, I've been doing everything I can to make it one....for them and for the loyal steadfast Maggers.

As far as you and me, all I was doing was trying to explain why such priorities exist...which seemed to be hard for you understand based on the questions,allegations and how you assigned blame for the plight of AGD. To that is all I can respond.Hopefully that is all clear and understandable now and the point of this thread can continue.

BTW,I don't take internet discussions personal so as far as you and me I don't see where there should be any problems...I hope there aren't, I definately never intended for them to be.If you got a bad feeling from me some how, I appologize, perhaps intent and inflection due get lost in text.

So....

Anything else?

[thorn]

[QUOTEHello,
It is my understanding that legal differences between yourselves and DeadlyWind has lead to the abandonment of their soon-to-be flagship product, a pneumatic trigger system for the AGD automag. I a also under the impression that you are in development of a system similar in operation, I am urging you to release this frame for the automag, as well as your planned releases, there is a large willing customer base, exemplified by the www.automags.org community. I believe that this would be both a profitable venture for you, and would lead to the gratification of the 'mag shooting community. What am I trying to say in this letter? You crushed a companies hopes of releasing a product that is, like, eleventy billion times better than yours, when we would rather have DeadlyWinds. Polls on AutoMags.org have shown that people would rather buy DeadlyWinds products than PTP's. Therefore, if you made them shelve a seemingly better product, you better pull something out of your butts and make us stop waiting, by getting this product out within two months. AGD is dying, automags are dying, and if you don't freaking do something about it, we will all point our fingers at YOU and accuse you RIGHTFULLY of KILLING AGD.

thank you for your time,
Ryan F.
P.S. I hate you.
[/QUOTE]

[teufelhunden]

Hello,
It is my understanding that legal differences between yourselves and DeadlyWind has lead to the abandonment of their soon-to-be flagship product, a pneumatic trigger system for the AGD automag. I a also under the impression that you are in development of a system similar in operation, I am urging you to release this frame for the automag, as well as your planned releases, there is a large willing customer base, exemplified by the www.automags.org community. I believe that this would be both a profitable venture for you, and would lead to the gratification of the 'mag shooting community. What am I trying to say in this letter? You crushed a companies hopes of releasing a product that is, like, eleventy billion times better than yours, when we would rather have DeadlyWinds. Polls on AutoMags.org have shown that people would rather buy DeadlyWinds products than PTP's. Therefore, if you made them shelve a seemingly better product, you better pull something out of your butts and make us stop waiting, by getting this product out within two months. AGD is dying, automags are dying, and if you don't freaking do something about it, we will all point our fingers at YOU and accuse you RIGHTFULLY of KILLING AGD.

thank you for your time,
Ryan F.

Yeah, that's how to go about it.. tell them that nobody wants their product but they should make it anyway. And then blame them for something they have nothing to do with.

Good call.

[thorn]

actually, i was just kind of adding another paragraph...
my point is that agd and automags are slowly dying..i hate to say it, but its true.
if someone doesnt do something then they will go down.
when dw tried to do something, and another company stops them, then that sort of is hurting agd.

[teufelhunden]

PTP IS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, NOR HAVE THEY DONE ANYTHING WRONG.

PTP has simply enforced their patent. Legal, acceptable, and everywhere but paintball, expected.

That said, it's nobody's business to save AGD except for AGD. Despite all the good Tom did for paintball and AGD, he signed the death letter by letting AGD simmer during the late nineties when he focused on military/LE equipment.

Now there's not much to be done. Either you can buy more 'Mags, or Zupe can figure out what he needs to do to save AGD. The problem is not with the company, the problem is with the products. The biggest products are Warps and obviously 'Mags. The problem there is that both products have very loyal users, except new users are few and far between. And it seems with guns that the new users are buying used guns. The solution is come up with something new and revolutionary that people will buy.. think Automags in the early nineties, except geared for today's game.


Oh, and don't kid yourselves, DW was not trying to bring out the hAir to save AGD. They were lookin to make some bucks. That's why Colin said he was going to expand outside of 'Mags.. if he really wanted to "save" AGD he'd keep the hAir 'Mag only, forcing people to buy a 'Mag if they want a hAir.

[kenndogg]

[QUOTEHello,
It is my understanding that legal differences between yourselves and DeadlyWind has lead to the abandonment of their soon-to-be flagship product, a pneumatic trigger system for the AGD automag. I a also under the impression that you are in development of a system similar in operation, I am urging you to release this frame for the automag, as well as your planned releases, there is a large willing customer base, exemplified by the www.automags.org community. I believe that this would be both a profitable venture for you, and would lead to the gratification of the 'mag shooting community. What am I trying to say in this letter? You crushed a companies hopes of releasing a product that is, like, eleventy billion times better than yours, when we would rather have DeadlyWinds. Polls on AutoMags.org have shown that people would rather buy DeadlyWinds products than PTP's. Therefore, if you made them shelve a seemingly better product, you better pull something out of your butts and make us stop waiting, by getting this product out within two months. AGD is dying, automags are dying, and if you don't freaking do something about it, we will all point our fingers at YOU and accuse you RIGHTFULLY of KILLING AGD.

thank you for your time,
Ryan F.
P.S. I hate you.

[/QUOTE]

I seriously hope you didn't send that email. Way to be mature about things. You trash their products but yet you encourage them to hurry up and release it? Providing them a link with suggestive polls don't mean jack. Last time I checked the paintball community doesn't revolve around AO. How can you expect to be taken seriously by being an idiot. I'm sure whoever reads that email will get a chuckle and than promptly delete it. If PTP gets too many of these idiotic emails I wouldn't be too surprised if they decided to put the pnue-mag on the back burner for more lucrative markets. I mean why waste money on a small niche market with ungracious customers when you can target a bigger market(blowbacks and cockers) who will snatch it up like hotcakes. Want to help AGD and Deadly Wind? Then send them a nice fat check to cover their financial needs so they can get the hAir on the market.
just my .02 cents

[rabidchihauhau]

Thorn,

"You crushed a companies hopes of releasing a product that is, like, eleventy billion times better than yours"

YOU ARE COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INCORRECT

1. the hAir was mechanically complicated; the Pneutrigger has MUCH better engineering
2. the hAir was relatively expensive to manufacture; the Pneutrigger design took mfg into consideration and is easier/simpler to manufacture
3. the hAir is a 'concept' design (let's see what we can do): the Pneutrigger was purpose-built to achieve a series of design goals, was approached in a phased manner and has many, many generations of development built into the idea. There were engineering requirements for things like safety, cross-platform application, etc., that were taken into consideration before the first screw was set.

4. No one 'crushed' anyones hopes: if you are in a technologically based design and manufacturing business, you MUST take into account the strategic issues of intellectual property - which means obtaining it for yourself and being aware that others are doing the same. If someone wants to display their secret designs in public, then they, and they alone, have to deal with the consequences.

DW was the sole decision maker in deciding not to work things out with PTP. I'm sorry if they and you think that they invented the damn thing first, but I am here to tell you that the genesis for PTP's work on the idea dates back to pre-2000 days and DW are not the only people in the world who are capable of inventing cool high-tec for paintball. In fact, the list of designs that PTP 'lost' in manners similar to what DW is going through now would fill a medium-sized filing cabinet (because they never got a patent in on them).

In conclusion - the PTP trigger is going to be a gazillion times BETTER than anyone else's thing and you're going to be glad that it is!

[luke]

1. the hAir was mechanically complicated; the Pneutrigger has MUCH better engineering

2. the hAir was relatively expensive to manufacture; the Pneutrigger design took mfg into consideration and is easier/simpler to manufacture

3. the hAir is a 'concept' design (let's see what we can do): the Pneutrigger was purpose-built to achieve a series of design goals, was approached in a phased manner and has many, many generations of development built into the idea. There were engineering requirements for things like safety, cross-platform application, etc., that were taken into consideration before the first screw was set.

In conclusion - the PTP trigger is going to be a gazillion times BETTER than anyone else's thing and you're going to be glad that it is!

[teufelhunden]

He worked for PTP til about the beginning of November, IIRC.