Is there REALLY any need for a Super Mech

[Eric Cartman]

Outside of hard-core paintball purists such us those who frequent this forum (myself included), who cares about Mechs nowadays. The market has spoken and they have resoundingly said NAY. Whether you're talking to a high-end tourney baller or some young kid looking to get into the sport, their desires are focused on the electro markers.

Of course they're focused on the electros and they love the faster lighter electronic triggers. Legally set up mech guns are slower. The thing that's being overlooked is that there are currently no "super mechs" available. Sure a few people have built their own, but nothing is widely available. If a cost effective mech is made available that can compete with the electros, who's to say what the market will say?
I'm sure most of us have seen pics of flying "cars" http://www.moller.com/skycar/ , but you don't see them cruising along on your way to work. Does this mean that the market has spoken against flying cars? No. It means that flying cars aren't widely available and the few that exist are extremely expensive and probably fairly complicated to operate, but what if a flying car is made that isn't too complicated to make or too expensive? Who's to say whether or not they would take off (horrible pun intended )?

Yeah, I know it's a weird example.

[RRfireblade]

OK, my 2 cents....sure you know that would be coming.

First off I agree that Electros will never be replaced as the premier style of marker. And I typically play with an Electro most of the time.

But....a few points about differences:


Speed:

The water submerging test not withstanding, would you really want to snap shoot at 8bps against someone laning into you at 15bps? Let's talk reality here.

You seem to assume that the Mech is slower than the Electro. I'm not really sure why you think that having not shot one but in the side by side comparisons that we've done so far,the general consensus is that 'Our' Mech is faster overall and easier to shot faster than the compared,legally setup electro. ( Timmy was one,Karnivore the other in the last series of tests)

Cost:

I fully expect the 'super' mech,assuming we're talking about the Pnuematic Triggered Mech,to be priced under the cost of most High end electros that it can and will compete with.

Servicability:

In the vast majority of cases, the "super" mech can be serviced to the point of a complete rebuild by the owner,on field and between games if need be.And you won't need a box of electronic parts,a multimeter,soldering statrion,anti-static environment etc, to do it. I'm not saying electros break down alot but the do as much as any other gun,which would you rather trouble shoot at the field?

Flexability

Just throw this in here,in some cases (Mag,Cocker) upgrading to a "super" mech frame will be easier,require less modifications,and cheaper than going Electro.

But there are definately arguements for both styles and there is definately a market for both as well.

Variety IS the spice of life...right next to paprika.

Jay.

[shartley]

That is NOT true. When I suggested improvements to Tom for the eMag he told me that he wasn't going to do anything BECAUSE of the SP lawsuits.

[shartley]

Sam, the problem is if your product demand isn't strong enough to take advantage of economies of scale, then either keep your margins low or sell at an obscene amount. True there may still be a demand for niche products but as a businessperson, would you really rather cater to that market or the larger segment?

Tuna, you're the dude that people sought after so I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing a lion's share of that niche market.

[SlartyBartFast]

I'll concede that this is a pretty good point. BUT, most airball fields don't include moats.

Seen the pictures from Muddigras?

[AGDlover]

Honnestly I wouldrather see a "super mech" like the hair over electros because I'm getting more and more agravated about cheaterboards on DM4's, Timmy's and other high end electros. If we had more of the Super mechs then we would be sure that there wouldnt be a ramping system involved(but ofcorse some PBN member will figure out how to increase preasure to increase speed on the trigger). SO I say yes there is a need. Just the other week i saw a 12yo kid with an 03shocker walk into the local Field(Country Club Paintball) With a full ramping board on its lowest setting at 20bps!! I was pissin me off!!! I got no problem with electros w/o ramping and other cheating board options just the people that pay more money on there board then anything else. So i say outlaw all cheater boards in all turnys check the guns before the day of play!!

[PBX Ronin 23]

I would pay the $850 for a Carter Comp.......but what percentage of the market thinks like me? Business is business. You have to allocate your resources to where you think you can maximize your profits.

[Lohman446]

I see two scenarios for a super mech. I see lack of eyes being a major drawback to selling them.

One - the loophole others have pointed out. If you are capping all electros and not mechs than mechs may be used for a ROF advantage (wouldn't that be odd).

Two - scenarios. However, I see a durability issue here, my mags have already gotten finicky, adding another thing to them worries me.

You have problems in both though, durability for scenarios, and eyes for tournaments. Eyes are what really pushed the ROF - noone would be firing at 20BPS if it was constant break city I'm wrong here actually quite often you see teams blend paint but you get my point.

[pito189]

I like to be able to work on my guns. I'm mechanically stupid, but i'm electronically retarded I think a super-mech would have a place in senario/req play, definately. tourney's? probably not. A smaller market to be sure, but a market non the less. My $.02

Scenario/Rec play is a much larger market then tournament paintball is. Why would you not cater to the larger market and not even worry about the tournament scene. AGD tried once to keep up with tournament paintball with the X-Mag and you see how that worked out.

I think a super mech is a feasible way to go, considering the companies reputation for quality and a durable product.

[xXHavokXx]

I think only one person has mentioned why electros will always sell more than "super mechs"

Eyes.

Eyes have been the driving force for the new wave of guns, ramping, 20+ bps and DerDer videos. If you can shoot fast without chopping you will win. Alternately there is no point to shooting 20 bps if you're going to blend every ball.

Super mechs will have innovative systems like LX, ACS and Jam but all of those require a missed cycle should a ball not be in the breech perfectly. I would rather my gun just not shoot then dryfire or chuff. While some jam bolt is resetting I'm getting a buffered shot and the next pull, giving me the advantage.

While I wish for a HAIR triggered mag and am dying to make one I would still find it outgunned and outclassed (ROF wise in this case) by my two Flys.

[GT]

Ill make this short since everyone else made theres so dam long

I think Tuna and the other dealers have seen an increase in sales because they are the few that still sell mags. PBgear doesnt even sell mags anymore, that is a huge red flag to me.

Lets be honest this isnt Elec v Mechs its Legal Semi v. Ramp. That's the issue. IF you want to shoot an e fast, just jump into your user settings right before a game, and then bounce your opponents into the dead box.


I would be suprised if anyone can snap shoot faster than 15bps. It also wouldnt suprise me if a ULT'ed mag could snap at around 12bps. So you are telling me that an e gun gets a whole 3 bps more? Personally the only difference bewteen elec and mech is that I can usually pull atleast one guy off the break (3v3 or 5v5).

There are two reasons someone wouldnt buy a mech gun:
1. They are playing at a very compatitve level and need the cheater modes.
2. Or think that they are so good that only X gun will get them to the next level.
3. E guns are cheaper and "better" than mech guns.

I think 99% of E owners fall into #2 and #3.

[MindJob]

Lets be honest this isnt Elec v Mechs its Legal Semi v. Ramp. That's the issue.

Corectamundo

There are two reasons someone wouldnt buy a mech gun:
1. They are playing at a very compatitve level and need the cheater modes.
2. Or think that they are so good that only X gun will get them to the next level.
3. E guns are cheaper and "better" than mech guns.

I think 99% of E owners fall into #2 and #3.

I love me Xmag, but I still play better with my RT and mech cocker. (I play even better with my Sniper II pump - nothing better than one shot - one kill)

[GT]

I still play better with my RT and mech cocker.

My two best killing machines:
Classic mag
revenge

should have never sold either.

[mag88888]

im not flaming you but, atleast im not trying to............ do you want AGD to become sell outs and make 50 guns a month, (crappy electros)? i sure like AGD how it is, we dont need to become Kingman. all of AGD's guns have been worth while and are still in the game, like the original utmag classic valve. id be fne using that but i wouldnt like to use a 80 buck piece of poop kingman electro. and ive alwasys prefered mechs. i like to keep it simple. as someone on page 1 said " i am mechanically stupid but electronically retarded." i just like the reliability and perfermoance of my rt ule custom. but other prefer other things. i would hate to see AGD start makin crappy sellout electros that as most electros do, get "old." the 68 classic mag is still a good gun. well thats what i ahve to say.

[$bobo$]

Ok, I have to admit that I didn't read the last 4posts above me, but I still have a comment on this.

The common tourny players look for what is well known as a good, fast, tourny marker. The reason non of them look torwards mags is because mags have a reputation as a recball/newbie ball gun. If people started seeing mags on the airball fields and in tournies, and saw how well they worked, I have no doubt sales would sky rocket. Also, who says mags are slower then electro guns? Last time I check, the only gun that is PROVEN to be faster then a e/xMag is a viking. If properly setup a emag or xmag will have a nicer, faster, feel to it as well. On the bps cap subject... They are going to start selling boards for guns that will be legal for psp... Tadao has already done so. They actually do cap a car's mph. It is easily removed, just like a board could be, but if you do remove it and try to use it in the tourny it is outlawed in then there will be consequences.