Is there REALLY any need for a Super Mech

[RusskiX]

Scenario/Rec play is a much larger market then tournament paintball is. Why would you not cater to the larger market and not even worry about the tournament scene. AGD tried once to keep up with tournament paintball with the X-Mag and you see how that worked out.

To everyone who has been highlighting tourney v. recball; this is a rather disingenuous argument. Electros may have originally catered to the tourney scene to give the ROF advantage, but nowadays everyone at my woodsball field are sporting e-markers.

This brings us back to Mel's original point that the peanut gallery HAS spoken. Electros are now catering to the larger market, i.e. everyone who likes a speed advantage and can afford one.

Super mechs will live or die by depending on whether they can compete with the relatively reliable performance (aka eyes and maintenance) and constantly dropping prices seen with electros. If they can do that, they can take some of the market segment away.

[lord1234]

mel, one thing you need to take into account is that the MAJORITY of the market is the scenario/rec player. I think MAYBE 3 percent of rec players are also tourney players. And less then half a percent is actually pure "tourney" players. If you could make a super mech that was affordable to the scenario/rec player(on par with the tippman or even the RT mag current price) a "super mech" would first make a return in rec/scenario and slowly move back into tourney play. Also if you can show a tourney player a gun where he doesn't have to worry about mud/rain/whatever screwing it up, they will stand up and listen. I think in the last year there have been 3 tourneys that took place in muddy or wet conditions and I know more than one player who was worried about their electronics.

just my 2c, however much they matter

--Lord1234

[WARPED1]

Simple answer to the thread title: no.

[PBX Ronin 23]

No offense Spydarm but I believe Russkix has eloquently answered your point of contention.

Furthermore, I would really like to know exactly where you found your numbers you're using to establish your conclusions. I would really like to know so that I can either further support or challenge any of my own future analysis regarding the industry in general.

Best regards.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

This is somewhat like the preclude to the French Revolution. 98% of France's pop. had no say in government, while the other 2% had all the power. It seems like the tournament scene, although small, greatly influences the market. Sure, the majority of paintballers play rec/scenario ball, but most of them stick with the same gun. They usually dont come to places like AO or PBN.

I think a Super Mech. has its place, as long as it can find it. It is clear that both Super Mech. and electro have their pros and cons. You have to worry about batteries with one, and reliable parts with the other. What does electro truely offer over Super mech.? Besides cheat modes and ACE, not much. But we are coming to the point where ACE alternatives are surfacing. As long as the Super Mech. can be well adjusted, reliable, fast, and well marketed, it will have it's place in paintball. It will not take over the electro market, but it may have some impact on it.

[Rift]

I see two scenarios for a super mech. I see lack of eyes being a major drawback to selling them.

Who sais that a mechanical gun cant have eyes?

[Kallahan]

eyes

Because eyes require electricity, though I'm sure there is a mechanical way to stop the marker from firing if a ball is not in place, but it would be a pain in the arse to deal with.

So far, the only advantage mechs have over electros seem to be their submersability, something that is pretty useless if you ask me. Sure in a monsoon I would take a mech over an electro, any other day of the week? elctro, hands down. Speed, and eyes trump submersability, plus you get all the useless my **** is bigger than your **** features like a ROF indicator!

[spantol]

Of course there's no need for a Super Mech; it's introduction certainly won't be an inflection point in the industry, but there's definitely a niche market there, waiting to be exploited. Positioned properly, there's money to be made.

At last year's IAO, I had the opportunity to fire the hAir, and it was a definitely a wallet-opening experience. Judging from the looks on the faces of the countless others who did the same, I'd say my experience was far from unique.

[digitalqwest]

I know this isnt a debate about Mech vs. Electro. but seemed to turn that way

We are Americans. I think 90% of us want what is new what is the latest and greatest.
For one to choose electro over mech isnt based solely on if you can submerge it in water and will it work or not.
Marketing is a huuuge factor in this. Sponsorship is a marketing scheme. Take Dynasty for example. SP sponsors them throw their top of the line (most expensive, happens to be an electro) gun in their hands and you got a crowd of people who want to be as good as them so they will get the gun they have.
Flip through a APG Magazine. All those colorful guns, oh is that a pro i see, Its a Electro!! I want it!!

I dont recall flipping though a magazine and seeing a AGD/MAG marketing ad, now i am not bashing mags I love em and always will. but again we want, and especially the younger generations want unique, colorful and flashy markers ones that make your friends jealous.

Now, karta, dallara chords, super mech,ULE body, hAir trigger these aftermarket upgrades will keep mags around for quite a while.

Produce a Super Mech stick it in a half naked chicks hands and ill buy one!

cant think of anything else

[Beemer]

Ok

Produce a Super Mech stick it in a half naked chicks hands and ill buy one!

Poster comes with the Mag

[poonjar]

to be honest the main reason i would be interested in a super mech gun is because I dont know anyone in my area who would get it.

every one i know shoots a matrix a timmy or an angel which is why i went the mag rout. I get the fun of setting up a gun and it will be just as fast as anything else when im done.

Not only do i have the only mag (probably in my entire state) but it would be cool to have the only mech gun on the field too.

Its kind of a catch 22 because i want whoever makes a supermech to do well financially but i still want to be different. If there isnt a big enough demand for it it wont be released but if every one has one id rather find something else thats unique.

I hope mag owners understand why i like to be unique.

[Conversekidz]

The sad part is I take my mag out to the field and people are like "What type of gun is that?" cause everyone and their mother shoots some form of an e-gun.

[White_Noise]

to all of those questioning mech antichop capabilities:

i run both an RT, and the SFL Emag. have I ever chopped a ball NO . have i ever turned my eye on in my SFL? NO. same goes for all the markers ive had with lvl10. out of the 4 diffferent valves that ive owned with level10, i have only chopped 1 ball with any of them. now this comes from me playing every 2 weeks, and sometimes every week. shooting about a case each week, more if its a tournament.

i find that completely astonishing considering that some of you say that mechs cant compete cause they'll end up chopping. guess what, the worst marker i ever had for chopping is my ecocker. eye is perfect on that thing, and i use a halo. somehow ive gotten chops about everytime i play with it. even my mech cocker had less chops.

so before you all start putting it off like mechs chop, look around and see whats actually out there to help against this(jambolt/lvl10). can a mech stop before it fires cause there's no ball in the breech? no. does it have to? no.

[/end rant]

BTW: for those interested, i have never personally tuned any lvl10 to use any spring besides the shortest, and still dont get chops.

[Lohman446]

Fine, maybe with enough tinkering you can get LX to work 100%, I have never personally seen (in person) or set a LX to work as well as eyes, do they avoid some chops sure, do they avoid 100% - no. I had a distinct issue with LX "pushing" a ball a short distance down the barrel, and then blowing the next ball through it as a normal occurence - chop, not by strict definition, does it make a difference - no.

Mechanical guns cannot have eyes as we understand them now. Eyes are an electronic system.

Here is the problem with a super mech that I see. Lets say it costs $700 - thats a little more than the price I can buy a Shocker for.

I see all sorts of tuning problems here, I mean I already have had to fiddle with LX, ULT, and the X-valve in general. To me it hurt the mag, it made it maintenance intensive. Not everyone has had this problem I understand, but others besides me have. This, more than performance, more than any chopping issue, is what turned me off.

You might get to the point of competeting with electros, I doubt you suprass them.\

You all seem to think the lack of ability to cheat with the marker (like people couldn't find a way) is a selling point. Whether I turn rebound on or not I like to have it as do many others with similar features. The lack of ability to cheat is not a selling point to most.

You still don't have eyes (yeh.. its important.. the conversation goes like this)

Bystander: Does it have eyes?
Mag user: No... it has level ten, AGD's mechanical anti-chop system thats better than eyes and super effective.
Bystand: Oh... Im buying a Timmy

Its kinda like
Bystander: Does it hav eyes
WDP: No, it has COPS/SENSI a much better system than eyes because it cant be fooled by paint....
Bystander: Oh... Im buying a Timmy

Maybe LX is not like COPS in function but it carries with it the same ideas.

You win on submersibility of the marker - ever tried to play with paintballs that have been submersed?

[minimag03]

What I'm about to say may get me stoned to death on this thread. And please, accept my statement that there's no insult intended to anyone associated with any high-end mech projects as a sincere one. But......

Outside of hard-core paintball purists such us those who frequent this forum (myself included), who cares about Mechs nowadays. The market has spoken and they have resoundingly said NAY. Whether you're talking to a high-end tourney baller or some young kid looking to get into the sport, their desires are focused on the electro markers.

Business being business, wouldn't it be easier to negotiate more liveable terms with either SP and WDP than to ramp your production and spend money marketing a product that only a small segment of the playing population can truly appreciate. Does it make sense to produce something that down the road the economies of scale can not be taken advantage of? Does it make good business sense to produce something that has a limited growth potential?

A friend of mine made a pretty interesting qoute regarding this very same matter. Coming out with a high-end Mech, he said, "is tantamount to to the Polish Cavalry charging against the German Panzers in 1939....... gallant but woefully inadequate."

Unless the big boys (NPPL and PSP) decide to come up with an all-mech division in their respective leagues, what's really gonna drive the demand for a super mech. What I comfort myself with is the notion that the industry is still evolving. Much as the pumps have been relagated to an earlier chapter in the history of the game, so at some point the Mechs will find their own chapter.

And this is coming from a guy who has written on his Will that he must be buried with his 1999 Evolution clutched in his right hand. Let the stoning begin......

No

-minimag03