Thoughts on ION, SP, Hype.. other makers..

[Twiek]

it starts as a base casting made of cast aluminum, pot metal essentially and MUCH cheaper than starting with 6000 series aluminum as most other do

All aluminum starts its life as a base casting somewere along the line. You said the parts were cast. That is wrong, they are machined. Yes, it's a cheaper grade of aluminum, that's not in dispute. SP's other 'guns are also made of cheap aluminum, but nobody's calling the shocker "cheap".

They are tumbled and done in clear...another cost saving process.And we already covered Powder Coating is yes...anther cost saving method

Yes, the internals are anno'ed (in black)... again, that's not what you said originally. The process is essentially the same as any other anno'ed marker.

You have no idea how durable it is so don't pretend to guess. I also said it may be but there is NO question it is a cheaper less quality part than what most others use today.

If you can take it apart, throw the pieces across the room, dust them off, reassemble them and have it funciton perfectly... then yes, it is durable. Cheaper, yes. "Less quality", no.

Good idea? Sure...cheaper to manufacturer? Right again. Lesser quality than a resin encapsulated board? You bet.

What other marker has an eye-board in the same arangement as an Ion? Most markers with eyes don't even use a board... they just bolt the diode straight to the outside of the body, more-or-less unprotected. I'll take a "lesser quality" non-resin encapsulated board over a "lesser quality" way of attaching an eye. There are only like 5 traces on the daughterboard anyway, what possible benefit could you get out of encapsulating it?

Obviously the Xmag does NOT require an LPR for normal operation,nor does it benefit from one in ANY way.It's NOT an eletro-pnuematic marker.Is it however built of better quality componets than an ION, without question. Most others however do have LPRs and benefit from them.Also, most would rather not risk failure to the E-niods due to over pressurization, not to mention enhanced efficiency in most cases as well. AND....it adds cost to the marker.Another cost sutting measure on the ION, sorry but true.

Just like the X-Mag, the Ion does NOT require an LPR for normal operation,nor does it benefit from one in ANY way. The 'noid does not have lots of small delicate parts in it. As I said, it's a stout little piece that's designed to operate at those high pressures (as opposed to SP's earlier method of using 100psi rated 'noids in 180psi markers). If you regulated the air going into the 'noid below the operating pressure, it would stop working... therefore, is not necessary.

[RRfireblade]

Listen, you want to be blind to the truth or live in your little land of denial that's fine.I gain nothing by trying to convince you of the clear and obvious facts of production methods,overall construction and design as is understood by the vast majority of the rest of the paintball industry.

Go ahead,believe what ever want and enjoy your ION for as long as you wish.I wish you a happy life,thanks.

I'm going to bed.

'Nite.

[Baby Huey]

Good morning. I have been around six or seven Ions now in various tournys, leagues, and rec days. They all work great. The ramping mode is not even worth being discussed because you are not allowed to use it during rec ball (open play) or in tournys. The only time I have used the ramping in my Shocker is during team practice night when everybody has the best equipment.

I am not sure who posted it, but the ION does not have the speed of a Shocker. Very fast for the $$ but not as fast as a Shocker (we have run them side by side to compare).

Thank you for your time and God Bless.

Baby Huey

[Twiek]

Listen, you want to be blind to the truth or live in your little land of denial that's fine.I gain nothing by trying to convince you of the clear and obvious facts of production methods,overall construction and design as is understood by the vast majority of the rest of the paintball industry.

Go ahead,believe what ever want and enjoy your ION for as long as you wish.I wish you a happy life,thanks.

Yea, I know nothing of the design... I obviously don't know how it works

I never said the Ion was some super marker that is better than any thing out there. I know it's inexpensive, that's why I freaking bought one. I'm not "blind to the truth" or "in my land of denial", I was simply stating fact (which is more than a healthy portion of the rest of this thread). Yes, SP used cost effective methods for producing the Ion... as has been said before inexpensive != cheap.

The Lotus Elise has an aluminum, resin bonded frame. The Chevrolet Corvette has a steel, welded frame. Steel and welding are significantly cheaper than aluminum and resin bonding.... Does that make the Corvette cheap? It's just a different method of getting the same thing done. They're both quick, agile cars that are well worth the money. They're just different.

I'll add more when I get home from work.

[RRfireblade]

Yea, I know nothing of the design... I obviously don't know how it works

I never said the Ion was some super marker that is better than any thing out there. I know it's inexpensive, that's why I freaking bought one. I'm not "blind to the truth" or "in my land of denial", I was simply stating fact (which is more than a healthy portion of the rest of this thread). Yes, SP used cost effective methods for producing the Ion... as has been said before inexpensive != cheap.

The Lotus Elise has an aluminum, resin bonded frame. The Chevrolet Corvette has a steel, welded frame. Steel and welding are significantly cheaper than aluminum and resin bonding.... Does that make the Corvette cheap? It's just a different method of getting the same thing done. They're both quick, agile cars that are well worth the money. They're just different.

I'll add more when I get home from work.

No need. Everything that can be said has been.

You want to agree that's it's inexpensively built than when those cost cutting measures are pointed out you want to argue that it's not. Makes no sense. I also don't argue whether or not you know how it functions, that still has no claim on it's construction methods and materials, let's try and stay focused if you want to have any kind of coherant discussion.

In any regard, this is a pointless arguement. The bottom line is it's a cheaply built marker using cheap components, that's the undeniable fact.

All the questions that need to answered are these, based on MY opinion and w/ a background in design and product development for the paintball industry for a number of years now:

Is quality of construction and materials on par with the best markers on the market right now? No.

Is it built 'good enough'? Sure, maybe. Besides some air fitting and reg issues,it seems to be so far. Most out of box issues are typically an easy fix by the user.

Does it perform well? Sure, it seems to work quite well.

Is it worth the money? Yah, I'd say so. Despite the first few 4-500 runs with acknowledged issues, it seems to be getting sorted out now.

Would I buy one? I would consider it if i was looking for a low end electro,it's very likely one of the best bangs for the buck right now.

Would I recommend it? For someone looking for a marker in that price range, sure.I've sold quite a few already.

And that's about all I have to say on the subject. :)



(Oh, and BTW...of the 'commonly' used materials, steel is one of the most expensive construction materials period,and has been for some time now. )

[Vendetta]

My biggest complaint so for is that I cut my finger and the barrel threads

[Twiek]

You want to agree that's it's inexpensively built than when those cost cutting measures are pointed out you want to argue that it's not. Makes no sense.

Yes, it's inexpensive. But where is the law written that inexpensive equals cheap?

What adds up to cheapness? A lower grade of aluminum and a non-resin encapsulated board? Why does a device that slings paint need 7000 series aluminum when 2000 series will do everything the 7000 series will, but for less cost? You're not stressing the aluminum past 50,000 psi, so what does that extra cost get you? I don't equate non-overkill as "cheap". Inexensive, yes... but for the millionth time, inexpensive does not equal cheap.

Lets put it this way, it's a cheaply built marker the same way a Corvette is a cheaply built car. Yes, a McLaren F1 is a monocoque design made from autoclave fired, resin bonded, preempregnated carbon fiber and the Corvette "only" uses a welded steel ladder frame. A welded steel ladder frame is very inexpensive compared to all the fuss of carbon fiber in the F1. But you'll never find someone who says the Corvette is a cheaply built car.

Is quality of construction and materials on par with the best markers on the market right now? No.

I'll agree with you on the materials part, it's not made from the same grade of aluminum as more expensive markers, and it dosen't use rediculous materials like titanium. BUT, just because it's not a DMC dosen't mean it's cheap. You're using the fact that there are markers out on the market now that are made out of spacecraft grade aluminum and titanium to say that anything less is "cheap". That is absurd... something dosen't have to be the best to not be cheap.

(Oh, and BTW...of the 'commonly' used materials, steel is one of the most expensive construction materials period,and has been for some time now. )

Sure steel is more expensive that concrete or wood, but that wasn't the analogy I was making... Steel is most definately not the most expensive materials in cars. Steel ladder frames are still the cheapest and easiest way to make a car frame. Aluminum space frames (like the ones found in the Elise) are more difficult to engineer and much more expensive, not to mention the use of monocoques, compsites, and adhesive bonding, or combinations thereof.

In any regard, this is a pointless arguement. The bottom line is it's a cheaply built marker using cheap components, that's the undeniable fact.

No, it's opinion. What's an undeniable fact is that the Ion is inexpensive, built using inexpensive components. The designation "cheap" is not quantifiable. It is simply your opinion.

And I disagree

[tyrion2323]

I'm throwing this out there for all of the new guys talking about the ION and wondering about getting it; and to the guys who just are suckers for Smart Parts and their marketing. I want to clear up a few points...blah blah...complain complain...

Fool. Thanks for starting another one of those 12-page long rant-fests that get people up in arms about benign matters. Let ME clear some things up:

1) Not everyone who buys a SP gun is "suckered" in by "hype." Some people...actually like SP guns. Imagine that!

2) Hype is an overused, misunderstood concept on AO. Whenever someone doesn't like something, they say, "it's just hype!" Tom Kaye kept saying that about Timmies, Matrices and Angels...and look where it got him. Advertising is not hype. Enthusiasm is not hype.

3) There is no "best gun" in the world, nor is there anything known as "$800 quality". It's true, the ION is not made of the best materials in the world...but do you think the Pirahna EVO is? Wake up. The EVO is a $260 version of what I could do myself for $120 with a Wal-Mart spyder and an aftermarket board.

4) The majority of "hype" is imagined by the people who dislike the ION. I have NEVER met a kid who claimed that his ION could outperform a Viking, nor have I ever seen it on the internet... And is it right to hate a gun simply because you don't like the people who have it?

[RRfireblade]

Yes, SP used cost effective methods for producing the Ion... as has been said before inexpensive != cheap.

Yes, it's inexpensive. But where is the law written that inexpensive equals cheap?

What adds up to cheapness? A lower grade of aluminum and a non-resin encapsulated board?

For starters,now your catching on.

I'll agree with you on the materials part, it's not made from the same grade of aluminum as more expensive markers

I never said the Ion was some super marker that is better than any thing out there. I know it's inexpensive

Lets put it this way, it's a cheaply built marker the same way a Corvette is a cheaply built car. Yes, a McLaren F1 is a monocoque design made from autoclave fired, resin bonded, preempregnated carbon fiber and the Corvette "only" uses a welded steel ladder frame. A welded steel ladder frame is very inexpensive compared to all the fuss of carbon fiber in the F1. But you'll never find someone who says the Corvette is a cheaply built car.

Yes, compared to a 1 million dollar hand built super car, the corvette is built cheaply.

ION = riced out Honda but coming that way stock. (No offence to the Honda 'ricers )

as they compare to say, Z06 Vette or a Porsche or whatever.

I'm still failing to see where the arguement is.

You seem to want and apply some 'extra' derragatory connotation to the word "Cheap" when I say it but it's fine when you say it.

I think where your lost is in precisely asking the question of whether or not the ION is 'subpar'...and I've already stated that in it's price range, it's not. In fact, I've also stated I think it's a good value for it's cost and the features you get.

I can't imagine what else there could be left to this discussion. Guess we'll have to wait and see.



(Why is it that the simple purchasing of a specific marker automatically creates some crazy bond that ties the owner to it in such a why that all logic and reason get's thrown out the window during emotional attempt to defend it honor? )

And for good measure...

[bound for glory]

i, for one, am sick and tired of reading about the ion an ao. is'nt there a ion owners site yet go there...please! and now i have to go test out my new DEVILMAG

[ApexAZ]

I got to fire my friends new ION and it was okay. I liked the speed...

Aside from that it felt like a Super Soaker to me.

As far as how cheaply built it is... I'm a firm believer in: you get what you pay for.

[JimmyBeam]

As far as how cheaply built it is... I'm a firm believer in: you get what you pay for.

yep and Im totally satisified with the 284 I spent

[Lohman446]

yep and Im totally satisified with the 284 I spent

Ahh yes, but how much do you have into your Ion?

[JimmyBeam]

Ahh yes, but how much do you have into your Ion?

lets see

feedneck 35
trigger 35
rail on off 45
grips 20
freak barrell 100
QEV 10
detonator - yanked from friends Omen


not too much i guess

[Lohman446]

What is the advantage of the QEVs btw... just curious if I should bother putting them on mine. My general theory is to just keep it stock and use it as a backup, but i might toy with it some