Thoughts on ION, SP, Hype.. other makers..

[93civiccpe]

I just bought an ion and my IQ went up 20 points and my my receding hairline started to grow back, my gut turned into a 6-pack, and Anna Kournikova showed up at my doorstep. LOL, it's just a paintball gun. I've fired one and it was good for the price. So what if you don't like it and think it's inferior. Does that mean someone can't shoot you out with one at a local game?? People get shot out with brass eagles & stuff at local games... if you don't like it, then you don't like it. If you do, then buy it. But I would buy it just for Anna.. lol.

[teufelhunden]

Exactly.......










So explain why everyone and thier mom wants or has an Intimidator? Just because of Bob Long's name?????




It's a Spyder with a modified trigger system.

I thought we lost this ignorance on AO a while ago.

The similarities begin and end with both guns having two tubes; a bolt in the top and the system that moves the bolt back and forth in the bottom tube.

[JimmyBeam]

all its gonna take is for you to be able to play an entire day with an Ion. i had my doubts in the beginning too, but its truly worth every penny

[peewee]

My personal judge is still out. I'm watching how it takes a beating long term, 6 months or so. Before I make any purchasing. I think that people are comparing the EVO & Ion due to basic parameters of the two. ROF 17 BPS, anti chop & price. For some people the ST type marker is comfort food. In truth I believe both markers are worth the money. My son has a SRT eforce & it is easy to work on & has been reliable. PMI is slowly getting a much better quality product than they are being given credit for.

[JimmyBeam]

but still the question is there......

what makes a "high end" marker high end.

is it the function, ergonomics, milling, other????

the Ion functions very well stock. 17bps, eyes, effecient.

and its very light

sure its uglier than most, but that doesnt change the way it shoots. and upgrades are on teh way. so lets take a Alias. believe me, if i had the cash to blow, that would be my main marker. but what makes it so much better than the Ion. what makes it cost 1k more? besides looks, and a couple more BPS, is there really that certain feature that makes it worth the extra grand?

[RRfireblade]

so lets take a Alias. believe me, if i had the cash to blow, that would be my main marker. but what makes it so much better than the Ion. what makes it cost 1k more? besides looks, and a couple more BPS, is there really that certain feature that makes it worth the extra grand?

In a nut shell, qualtiy of components are a big part.

Ions are cast aluminum,much cheaper than milled,

Powder coat cheaper than anno,

They use a very in-expensive very simple basic soleniod,

The have no LPR,

Simple, pre asembled eye system,

Very basic and in-expensively built PC board and buttons,

It all adds to to large cost savings even though the assembled parts do function well as a unit.

After that you have the intended market for a product and what they are willing to spend, IE Entry level for time electro buyers VS. more experienced 'Tourny' players and their 'wish I was' counterparts.

But the material cost,initial investment on production demands (Buying the initial extrusion for the timmy bodies,etc) and R&D are a large part.

[Lohman446]

In a nut shell, qualtiy of components are a big part.

Ions are cast aluminum,much cheaper than milled,

Powder coat cheaper than anno,

They use a very in-expensive very simple basic soleniod,

The have no LPR,

Simple, pre asembled eye system,

Very basic and in-expensively built PC board and buttons,

You're the expert in the area, let me ask you this. Are these parts they use of lower quality or just less expensive? And if they are lower quality are they of a lower enough qaulity taht you beleive it will, in time, influence the function of the marker?

[RRfireblade]

You're the expert in the area, let me ask you this. Are these parts they use of lower quality or just less expensive? And if they are lower quality are they of a lower enough qaulity taht you beleive it will, in time, influence the function of the marker?

IMO, yes they are lower quality and lower cost.

And yes I think they will have an effect on performance long term.

[FallNAngel]

The Evo is a blowback sear tripper. That fact alone lifts the Ion above the evo in my eyes. I don't think it's quite fair to say the Evo is just as good.

The Evo isn't made by Smart Parts... that alone put them back on equal footing IMO.

For under $300 you get a marker that works like a Matrix

Actually, it works like a mag

[JimmyBeam]

The Evo isn't made by Smart Parts... that alone put them back on equal footing IMO.

now thats just being ignorant

Actually, it works like a mag

negative

[kurama]

I agree on the marketing part. There are other markers comparable, but you must consider this:

- High end, or commonly mislabelled as pro/tournament grade is usually defined by not being a blowback. Most are electropneumatics, but some cases such as the mag take the high end cake aswell.

- The B2k's weren't on sale, and the low price is only at one store really. The BKO5's aren't out yet.

So, that sort of kills the competition sort-of making it the cheapest high end marker. Can the other markers in the pricerange compare, if not exceed the ion? Yes, but most don't meet the on-paper "high end" requirements. While the ION itself is far from high end stock, it looks like it is on paper and it's dang close. The diablo wrath is also high end, but I believe it wasn't out when SP made all their marketing stuff.

The other electros around the same price that are about equal are:
-BKO5 (and the B2k4PDS's now that they're on sale, but I won't count it since its a limited offer)
- PMI EVO
- Diablo Wrath (Is that the name of it)?

Now, most of them have downsides aswell. Here are the cons of the ION and EVO in my opinion, since they seem to be the point of discussion:

Feedneck
No LPR
Trigger
Reg/Grip

As you can see, those are some smaller things most people don't keep stock anyways, but the stock ones will suit you well for then. Its not like they need an entire internal overhaul or something horribly expensive to shoot well. I'm not counting the composite shell since it's somewhat opinionated (looks = opinion) and doesn't really affect the performance.

The EVO's downsides are:

It isn't an electropneumatic
PMI boards tend to skip shots a ton (I've experienced this firsthand with several PMI markers including an evo)

Really, the EVO is the best blowback I've shot. Still, when people look at the marker on paper they don't see that it doesn't have the many problems the blowback design tends to have. Also, nobody really makes new boards for PMI markers... Who knows why...

So, I'd call them even. Why is the EVO the underdog? Marketing. Still, can you blame smartparts? About every company we see these days is fueled with marketing ads and catchy phrases. Look at a paintball magazine and you'll see SP isnt the only hype-driven company. Look at McDonalds' shameless attempts to try to get black people to eat their food. Really, if a company wants to make loads of money there isn't a way around it and most companies want money. Its a shame that companies trying to put a good product on the market to give the customer a good deal are becoming rarer. SP just climbed the foodchain quite ruthlessly and they're trying to stay on top of it all.

[hardr0ck68]

I havent read all the posts but wanted to chime in any ways.

I dont like SP, and i never will...they have always been shady and I dont care who tries to call it "good business" they are dirty. because of that i would hapily shoot a classic spyder before an Ion.

Hey and lets back track for a second WTF is wrong with sear tipper electros anyway? I always knew a day would come where cheap was cool, i just dont get why it took so long. An e-spyder goes for what $50 used while a shocktech mech cocker prolly gets 400+ . Lets face it the e-spyder will own that cocker in bps (and be on par for reliability). It never made sence to me, and still doesnt. I always shot AGD because Tom was a stand up guy and the cocker guys thought mags sucked.

Before the hate starts i have owned a sear tipper electro, E-mag, verty cocker (no not shocktech but really whats the differance?) and about 5 other mags.

[Recon by Fire]

What didn't you like about it, I'm curious. I had teh exact opposite, I bought one, ordered one to see what they were like expecting it to feel cheap - I was pleasantly surprised when I picked it up.

It was just the general feel of the thing. The plastic body, the grip, the feed neck, the reg. It all had the blatant "i'm cheap" feel to me. The trigger was the best component IMHO.

[Lohman446]

IMO, yes they are lower quality and lower cost.

And yes I think they will have an effect on performance long term.

I disagree - I think there will be some issues with replacment of those internal hoses, but the simple solenoid design looked rugged enough to me.

However... you are much more qualified than I am to answer the question of longevity in the hypothetical, so I could be wrong

[RRfireblade]

I disagree - I think there will be some issues with replacment of those internal hoses, but the simple solenoid design looked rugged enough to me.

However... you are much more qualified than I am to answer the question of longevity in the hypothetical, so I could be wrong

It may last forever, who can really say, I can't.

But there's no question that it is a cheaper made and a less quality component than the typical Humphrey or SMC valves that most other 'high' end markers are using.It was most definately used as a cost cutting feature.Same with the PC Board and its components,same with the 'modular' eye system,plastic trigger and the other things I had mentioned.That's not a slam just an observation.


Now don't get me wrong, I like the ION myself and think it IS a nice deal for what you get at that price but do I think it will last as long as say a BKO? An Intimidator? A Xmag?

No,I really don't think so.

But for what it costs new, if it lasts a reasonable amount of time and replacement part costs are reasonable,most people will probably be fine with that.