Ions new Competition

[Teamslayer76]

I heard a rumor that this marker isnt a $300 marker.

Its completely the opposite, and is going to be more expensive than the DM5.

Only a rumor...lets see if its true

I heard the same. But either way it looks sweet. I really got sell my nerve before I can't......hate it sooo freaking much...

Also about FirstcallPaintball they are trustworth. I ocasionally purchase cheap stuff from them. When they have mega ultra sales.

[alouba]

ummm
that gun is gonna cost 1700

http://www.firstcallpaintball.com/products/2226.html

but it might be a scam....might

jsh.....no one pays attention to what i say.....

[BD_Paintball]

jsh.....no one pays attention to what i say.....

i really dont think that firstcallpaintball would scam anyone. its a good site to order stuff off. not a scam. its like saying paintballgear.com is trying to scam people

[Lohman446]

There's a difference between Capitalism and a Monopoly. You tell me what SP is doing in the electro market...

Let's see...

Eclipse has to pay a fee for every E-Bladed 'cocker sold...

AKA was put outta business, which elminated a competitor for Smart Parts...

They tried to sue WGP....

SP=Greed

Don't get me wrong here, they make great products. From their AA barrels to the Shocker, I like them all.

Let me get soem facts straight here. Eclipse signed an agreement with SP to produce electronic grip frames. The exact terms of this agreement are unkown to most anyone but SP and Eclipse. We do not know if it is a per product fee, a yearly fee, or a one time fee.

They tried to sue WGP?? - I don't recall SP sueing K2, considering that the Worrblade was made by Eclipse and with Eclipses consent I don't think that is accurate.

AKA was put outta business? AKA chose to quit producing markers that they beleived a court would rule infringed on a patent. They did not go out of business.

So, we have several manufacturers still producing electronic markers with no threat of legal action against them: Dye, BLAST, Planet Eclipse, K2. To the best of my knowledge there has been no legal action against Kingman. WDP is still producing markers after a court ruled that they had rights to produce under current patent law. PMI is producing markers at this point with only minimal legal action against the Evil Pimp if I recall, and understand I don't have knowledge of that.

Looking around me I would guess that SP controls less than 30% of the market - understand I do not have actual quantative numbers on that, its a rough estimate and I figured high, I think. Please explain to me how the current enviroment that SP markets under is a monopoly. How does a monopoly, even if it existed, compares in to the human rights violations of historic signifigance and totalitarism of the Third Reich and the Nazi regime? I would label what SP has done recently as mildy agressive protection of established intellectual and patent rights. And yes I would consider it mild compared to other industries.

[Lohman446]

Let me illustrate two arguments, and you can tell me why I think one is better than the other. The arguments, the points, and my humble opinion of them.

Dye better watch out so they don't get sued by the Nazis.(SP) What if they claim they were the first to come out with a low cost - high performance marker. LOL

- argument based on knee jerk reaction and use of inappropriate historical reference. Comparing non-violent market competition to the Nazi government that committed autrocities of historic level is just . It is also hurtful to the victims of the holocaust and trivializes the suffering they, or there ancestors, endured.

You can call it what you will, I'm not interested. Smart Parts made a buisness move that it seems to have benefited from. However, in my eyes it was not in the spirit of advancing the sport. And certainly not in the spirit of good will or cooperation. I understand that they are running a buisness, but all the same, I will not be purchasing anything from Smart Parts. They made their choice and I made mine. If you're indifferent, or like SP, I dont mind, thats your choice. Flame me for it if you want, but I will not support them.

Considered opinion. I would disagree with it and assert that the evidence used to come to this conclussion was likely not fully considered, inaccurate, or spun I would admit readily how that conclusion could be come up with. I think its outside of accurate, but readily allow that this is at least an argument based on what someone truly beleives and at least a defendable position. In other words, while I disagree with the statement I can see how one could reach that conclusion and admit that it is a reasonably logical conclusion.

[Glickman]

yay lets go spend 1700 on a "plastic" paintball gun that people were *female doging* over $300!!!

[felony]

all of this talk is a little premature. but personally - ultralite barrel(proto doesnt have), sculpted integrated on/off(proto also doesnt even have), rubberneck no-rise, an (arguably) more beautiful-than-a-dm5-uber-elegant silver/black body = not cheap. i think this will be expensive.

edit:and probably extremely light.

i would have to agree.

eyes also look like those on the dm4/dm5, not something cheaper like the pm.

prices for markers are already low as it is... i had my dm4 spiderman with matching cp kit (two bores) and tadao for sale. some fool offered 600 as a serious cash offer.

[VAballer]

I think this should be a mid-priced gun. It looks like DYE is doing something like the ION, composite body. With over 10k IONs sold and another 5k or so on backorder, why not. More and more companies should make inexpensive guns as an alternative to their flagship guns, DYE shouldn't be any different.

[GT]

ion comes with ramping standard, but it isnt to be used on rec fields,

300 bucks for a ramping "tourney" gun that has software for tourneys only and you expect it to be used only there? I think the worst, "techno cheats" I have ever witnessed were at rec events.

gt

[CKY_Alliance]

[QUOTE=Lohman446]Let me illustrate two arguments, and you can tell me why I think one is better than the other. The arguments, the points, and my humble opinion of them.



- argument based on knee jerk reaction and use of inappropriate historical reference. Comparing non-violent market competition to the Nazi government that committed autrocities of historic level is just . It is also hurtful to the victims of the holocaust and trivializes the suffering they, or there ancestors, endured.QUOTE]

Are you ****tying me It is hurtful to the victims and that they or their ancestors endured.Wow my ancestors endured slavery but it doesnt affect me people that play that card are full of ****!

Back on subject

Maybe firstcall is putting up the picture they can get and taking orders even though they dotn have them? Kinda like a pre order and then shipping them out as soon as they get them.Its a possibility or maybe they already have them.

[Lohman446]

Are you ****tying me It is hurtful to the victims and that they or their ancestors endured.Wow my ancestors endured slavery but it doesnt affect me people that play that card are full of ****! .

And if I compared modern day unionized labor such as the employment contracts of GM line workers to slavery would it not be triviliazing slavery?

[teufelhunden]

Maybe firstcall is putting up the picture they can get and taking orders even though they dotn have them? Kinda like a pre order and then shipping them out as soon as they get them.Its a possibility or maybe they already have them.

Uh, yeah, that's been determined.

[SCpoloRicker]

The funny thing is that I have heard every argument, about the how cheaply the ion is made and its a plastic gun, 15 years ago. Except it was not the ion they were talking about, it was the Glock. Now glock is known as one of the best, most reliable, most rugged guns around. HHHHMMMMM

Uh, no. Glocks have been pulled from just about every P.D. out there, as they have atrocious jamming problems with misfeeds. When you practice clearing with a Glock, you have to use a plastic training round. Why? Because using brass fouls the chamber, and requires disassembly.

Oh, and Godwin surrenders, newblars.

[CKY_Alliance]

And if I compared modern day unionized labor such as the employment contracts of GM line workers to slavery would it not be triviliazing slavery?

No becasue they work by choice.Do they not?

[Lohman446]

No becasue they work by choice.Do they not?

The differences are so vast between modern day workers (the GM example) and slavery that to compare slavery to these workers... which is not even close trivializes the suffering that the victims of slavery endured. Even this I'm comparing workers to workers, but you get the idea on what I mean I assume.

To compare the Nazi goverment to SP (its not even comparing workers to workers, but again just go with it) is so far off that it trivializes the sufferings of the victims of the holocaust.

Do you understand the point I am trying to make? I am in no way trying to triviliaze those sufferings, and to draw an anology to GM workers and slavery or SP to the Nazi regime is . You don't have to agree with that last thing, as long as you understand what I am trying to say.