Hype in paintball

[shartley]

Hype.. started by consumers, and encouraged by the company

Remember the green M&M... the urban legend that everyone seems to know that it is an aphrodesiac. No scientific evidence to support it, and I think most people know better.

But remember the green M&M when it was on the commercial? Mars certainly made use of that hype.

[yakitori]

So fireblade...IS the pneumag frame UNshortstrokable? You never answered that.

I personally believe that there is a design flaw in the On/off/sear of the mag. THat is what leads to shortstroking and lead to the development of the LX bolt. Is it not? Nobody ever answers my good questions. :)

I still feel that AKAs slogan Low pressure Experts is not hype. It doesnt say that there is any benefits to low pressure, or that low pressure is better than high pressure. It just says they are experts at low pressure. I think that statement is fair because it is backed up w/ being one of the lowest pressure guns there are.....but w/o being inefficient. We all know that Viking is probably one of, if not the most efficient marker made. And this was years ago that they made it. I havent seen anyone produce as an efficient low pressure gun in the next 3 years since the viking. And AKA delivers when it comes to Low pressure and Consistency. Everyone knows they make great regs. The chronograph doesnt hype. It shows what it shows and nothing more. Everything else is either believing or not believing.

Because quality shoots so straight is hype, because it leads ppl to believe that AGD quality makes the gun shoot straighter, but as we all know that is not true. My tippmanns have shot just as straight as my mags have and they have a plastic powertube and bolt. All guns shoot along a similar parabolic curve. No credible scientific study has shown otherwise.

As for the SP hype, I can see that. Those kinds of statements are outright stupid because how can you say the AA is the BEST barrel out year after year. Its a lie. Spiral porting does nothing for accuracy. Ive used AAs and I personally think they suck.

Im not saying that there isnt any hype from a company to boost their sales. Of course there is, but that doesnt mean the product doesnt do what is says it does. Personal opinions and testimony has no effect on performance. Thats stupid. If ppl buy it because so and so said things like that about it, then they are sheep, dumb, or just noobs.

Thats what it boils down to. TV is full of hype for EVERY SINGLE product. From shampoo, to viagra. PPl that buy based on hype-ish statements are suckers and nothing more. But, that doesnt mean they wont be going around w/ clean hair and long lasting erections.

[Lohman446]

I personally believe that there is a design flaw in the On/off/sear of the mag. THat is what leads to shortstroking and lead to the development of the LX bolt. Is it not? Nobody ever answers my good questions. :)

I still feel that AKAs slogan Low pressure Experts is not hype.

To me.. saying something and then letting the public make there own assumptions and roll there own hype out is a great thing. Its awesome hype, one of the safest forms to engage in. Remember AKAs statement about marker range that I hunted down above, this was hype based of inaccuracies. However they dont say the lower pressure experts for nothing. They say it, and then others turn it into useful hype. Its hype, at least in kind, and encourages customer hype - which may be more valuable to a company than company hype.

[RRfireblade]

So fireblade...IS the pneumag frame UNshortstrokable? You never answered that.

I personally believe that there is a design flaw in the On/off/sear of the mag. THat is what leads to shortstroking and lead to the development of the LX bolt. Is it not? Nobody ever answers my good questions. :)

It definately seems to be so far, I think my first 'trigger' only vid shows that pretty clearly. Do to the way the trigger mechanism functions ,a trigger pull of any any amount of length or rate of speed long enough to trip the 'system' results in a properly fired shot otherwise it simply doesn't fire. There really isn't any way to get a 'partial' shot by altering the pull of the trigger.As for the production version I can't say as of yet cause I don't one to try. :) However, I don't see any reason why if they're built correctly and our out sourced venders replicate the parts correctly, that should be the case with them as well.

I will say this however, you can still and maybe more easily get chuffing and such on an incorrectly set up Level 10 or a very new and 'tight' valve that's still breaking in do the ease of reaching a high ROF, much like on a E/Xmag. But that is true in any case regardless of grip frame, this trigger doesn't correct any issues that may exist in the valve system itself.I would BTW, like to hear what you thing is a flaw in the sear/on/off that creates short stroking tho.

[yakitori]

so for the other question you didnt answer. Was the LX bolt designed to alleviate chops do to short stroking, or does everyone believe that it was because it bobbles the next ball from the breach? If it was the latter, couldnt that be corrrect w/ a slight change in the bolt shape?



I didnt say that there is a flaw in the sear/on/off that leads to short stroking, but the whole system itself with the way it is designed makes it capable of being short stroked. And IMO short stroking is not a good thing to have regardless of how the trigger is pulled. That is why a lot of ppl prefer stock on/offs compared to ULT kits.

Let me put it this way. WHen I hand my mag to someone who hasnt shot a mag before, they short stroke the hell out of it. Is it user error? Probably. But do they short stroke my other mech guns. No.

Im just saying that short stroking exist and cannot be eliminated with the design of the mag, or a cocker. You have more experience in building guns and such, maybe you can explain to us why it is a problem or how it can be corrected w/o redesigning the pneumatic funtion of the valve, sear, and on/off.

[SlartyBartFast]

so for the other question you didnt answer. Was the LX bolt designed to alleviate chops do to short stroking, or does everyone believe that it was because it bobbles the next ball from the breach? If it was the latter, couldnt that be corrrect w/ a slight change in the bolt shape?

That was tried and tested. With the level7 bolt the bolt just travelled too quickly.

The various incarnations of ronded end helped but didn't eliminate breaks.

Tom was the only manufacturer posting test data and being open about ongoing developments. He was also the only one to do actual paintball related research.

It's for those reasons he built a solid "no hype" reputation.

It's too bad he pulled out.

[shartley]

Tom was the only manufacturer posting test data and being open about ongoing developments. He was also the only one to do actual paintball related research.

It's for those reasons he built a solid "no hype" reputation.

[SlartyBartFast]

Well, let's see. Anyone else do fundamental research of paintballs in flight? Or of paintball spin? Anyone else actually develop improved paintballs?

Anyone else get military funded products based on aerodynamics research?

Sure, others are "experimenting". But not in a scientific way. More trial and error and tinkering.

AGD/Tom didn't have a clue as far as marketing and running an on-going business. Got to have someone running the day to day at the shop while the head honcho digs for bones or tests military gadgetry.

[shartley]

Well, let's see. Anyone else do fundamental research of paintballs in flight? Or of paintball spin? Anyone else actually develop improved paintballs?

Anyone else get military funded products based on aerodynamics research?

Sure, others are "experimenting". But not in a scientific way. More trial and error and tinkering.

AGD/Tom didn't have a clue as far as marketing and running an on-going business. Got to have someone running the day to day at the shop while the head honcho digs for bones or tests military gadgetry.

[Lohman446]

If TK is the only one to do testing and research these other companies got extremely lucky on stumbling onto the various systems we have now with no testing or research. Just think about it.

[SlartyBartFast]

If TK is the only one to do testing and research these other companies got extremely lucky on stumbling onto the various systems we have now with no testing or research. Just think about it.

SP and other: Spinning or otherwise stabilizing paintballs equals more accuracy.

TK: High speed photography and ball spun at 30,000rpm = no change in accuracy. Spurred the whole paintball spin dynamic thread and the link to vortex shedding.

Perfect Circle balls and the FN303 and associated ammunition.

Other companies tested, sure. Got to prove a product works. But I maintain: most tinkered.
AND, their R&D is product related. Not fundamental research.

Through history, some great engineering was accomplised by tinkering, I will admit. But lots of hype and misunderstanding about the way things work also led to much wasted time and effort.

The proof of Tom's fundamental research is avaialble. Where's the PROOF of other companies doing the same?

[shartley]

SP and other: Spinning or otherwise stabilizing paintballs equals more accuracy.

TK: High speed photography and ball spun at 30,000rpm = no change in accuracy. Spurred the whole paintball spin dynamic thread and the link to vortex shedding.

Perfect Circle balls and the FN303 and associated ammunition.

Other companies tested, sure. Got to prove a product works. But I maintain: most tinkered.
AND, their R&D is product related. Not fundamental research.

Through history, some great engineering was accomplised by tinkering, I will admit. But lots of hype and misunderstanding about the way things work also led to much wasted time and effort.

The proof of Tom's fundamental research is avaialble. Where's the PROOF of other companies doing the same?

[Lohman446]

My point was not in the failures, but the successes. The spool valve without research? The MQ valve without research? The improvements that happen and succeed without research? That was the point, somewhere there must be some direction

[yakitori]

here we go again guys.

[shartley]

here we go again guys.