Is the Dead Man Walk Really that big a deal?

[Jaan]

Maybe around 1996 ESPN broadcast some games. A lot of people were just hearing about paintball for the first time and it was a good way of checking it out. It was kinda cool how a lot of people started watching the games and getting into it. Well, one of the last games in the series was (I think) All Americans vs Paraplegic Turtles. Some dude did a dead man's walk and ended up winning the game that way. I didn't get to catch the game when it was on, but the very next day everyone was talking about it. Everybody (who didn't play at least) thought it was a lame move.

Sorry, but that just sticks out in my mind. It was a time where the game was starting to get really popular and people were interested in learning about the game and it made some people think players were just punks.

[BeaverEater]

i pulled a dead man walk, 5v5 with some of my buddies. I just stood up from behind the bunker i was in and walked across the field. I never signaled that i was out and was surprised it actually worked. I walked to their back standup and shot them all.

[athomas]

It should be legal only if there is a way to indicate a live player. Arm bands indicate a live player. Therefore, if armbands are in use then the deadmans walk should be legal. If a ref doesn't grab the armband of the player, then he is live until it is gone. Without the live player indication, there can't be a legal deadmans walk. Otherwise, there is careless overshooting (just in case).

I voted it should be illegal. It does take away from the spirit of the game.

[68magOwner]

i did one, came down to a 2v2 in finals at a toureny, my teammate was out of paint, both opponents on the saem tapeline, so, rather than try and gunfight both, decide to jur try and run through em. Get to the first guy, shoot his hat right off his head, then shoot in the face, keep running, he shoots me in the back ~15times, as the 2nd guy comes out of his bunker/sees me. I put gun down, stop running, start walking towards deaxbox as if im out. At this point a ref walks up to me and wispers "you shot that guy first, your still not out" which, i knew, but, dont think he should have told me, not his job. Anyway, the guy starts to run past me to go get my teammate, as he runs by, lift up gun, blow him away. The croud started screaming at me, not knowing wtf was going on, the refs started screaming at the croud, the other team started screaming at me, i/refs scream at them, and, in the midst of it all, my other teammate just walks up, grabs the flag, walks over and hangs it like nothing happend. So, got bombarded walking off the field, everyone wanting to know wtf happened, everything was preety hostile for a while (this was in the finals, so, prizes on the line, not to mention that was sort of a rival team). But, in the end, most people figured it out, and the other team ended up oppologizing (sp) for how they reacted (preety much wanted to have a fight then and there). Good times. Yes, it was a shady move, yes i would be upset if it happend to me, yes it won us the game, no, i dont regret it.

[BD_Paintball]

a kid tryed it when i was playing in the woods but he also put his gun slightly in the air. no one shot him so he pulled the flag and the refs stopped the game. we later said the we saw him just walking to the flag with his gun slightly in the air, so the owned yelled at him alot and i have not seen him there for about 2 years. i think it should be illegal or else i am going to start shooting every one that i see who does not have their gun VERY high in the air, and that will just start problems.

[Lohman446]

I was playing with my phantom once and the owner of the field was on the other team. I walked (legally) past his entire team, I even stopped and helped one tech his marker, then turned around and sat in his bunker. I asked him if a dead mans walk was legal and he jsut looked at me with one of those "why... darn it" looks. I told him to stay in and walked off field. I proved it could be done, even to him, and I did not suffer the bonus balling the rest of the day for it, just had a good story to tell.

[RusskiX]

Ugh, this has been beaten to death already...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122510

[warbeak2099]

Hey, as long as they're not out then it's fine. They're just standing up and walking backwards. If you can pull it off, it's cool. You're still following the rules.

[VFX_Fenix]

The problem I have with the Dead Man's Walk is that it eventually encourages bonus balling everyone walking on the field during a game, hit or not.

Ask just about anyone if they like getting shot while they're walking off the field and I'd be willing to bet they say they don't.

It's a courtesy thing, not that the Dead Man's Walk wasn't/isn't a valid tactic, but it degrades some of the structure that paintball already has in place concerning shooting people excesively.




Woo... 500th post....

[cris8762]

just shoot them into the deadbox....problem solved

[VFX_Fenix]

The average customer at the fields I've been to/worked at doesn't apreciate being shot after they've called themselves out. One of the reasons the field I worked at had a rule specifically against the Deadman's Walk and putting paint on players when they're walking off the field.

Remember, you're talking about the average Joe, not Tourney Ballers/Experienced Players. Tourney guys expect to get a few extra when they're walking to the dead box, it's almost amazing to me when I don't catch some extra paint on the way to the dead box. Experienced players also understand that mistakes are made and you do get shot from time to time strolling to the side-lines ater you're out. Average Joe rental can get really pissy about just accidental shootings much less being on the recieving end of intentional paint. A few people complaining about getting shot can carry some weight, word of mouth travels rather quickly when it's bad news.

Consider that tactics like the Deadman's Walk are rarely if ever used successfully in any environment apart from Rec games. Tournaments (NPPL/XPSL) have very specific rules against the Deadman's Walk and overshooting. In the Recreational game arena you see players of all experiences, Newbs have a hard enough time figuring out when to leave their bunkers some times after they've been shot/called out because they're afraid of getting hit by whoever was shooting at them before. Newbs also are learning the game and should be given an environment where they aren't encouraged to shoot players leaving the field because; 1) They may light someone up pretty badly without meaning to 2) It reinforces their fear of leaving the field and 3) the environment on the field becomes just that much more hostile, and that hostility can leave the field of play as well.

The point of rules is to make things safe, fair and fun.

[dolphin1823]

If by deadman's walk, some one is walking across the field with there gun up in the air, only to get behind the other team and start shooting, that shoud be illiegal because every field's safety briefing I've heard says; when your hit, you raise you marker up yell HIT, or OUT loudly put your barrel plug on and walk off . If I see some walking thru the field not meeting this description, then their a target.
But if you decide to, instead of running like a bat out of hell to a bunker, your going to casually walk, with your marker down, across the field and nobody shoots ya, should be perfectly leagel. I've done it a few times

[Evil Bob]

There's a pretty good video of exile vs. naughty dogs on force of nature where an exile player actually TELLS the ND player to get out, even though he doesn't signal, he runs out and no one on exile shoots him, he waits till they get closer and some get past them, shoots all 3 of them, one of them turns and shoots back ( 5sec after he's dead) and they pull a 1 for 1 pulling the last guy. Leaving the ND player clean to run back and hang the flag...

Load up that video and watch it closely starting at the 3:04 mark, that's when the whole DMW gig starts. At 3:09, the ND player does clearly signal he's out, his marker comes out from behind the bunker first and its over his head. As he starts to stand up, both his hands are clearly up over his head. Once he's upright and starts starts walking, then the arms come down. Its pretty quick in there, but if you watch closely, you'll see it. Additionally, at the 3:10 mark as he's walking away, he's clearly hit on his right butt cheek. The truely sad thing here is a clueless ref is standing there watching the whole thing and doesn't take any action. Keep an eye on clueless here through the rest of the sequence, he just wanders around, its pretty evident that's he's an unexperienced ref and really shouldn't be out there. The head ref (guy with white towel) yells at this very ref repeatedly to "pull that guy", the clueless ref's hesitation it quite evident, he really doesn't know what's going on or what he should be doing. On top of this, the head ref doesn't even bother to check the ND player as he would have seen the paint on his backside, instead he just ignores that player and focuses on the exile guys the ND player just shot out. There was a huge argument after the game was over, the event head ref was called over and it went on for a good 15 minutes.

What's really really sad here is this DMW was totally unintentional, the player actually thought he was out, he even later said he felt the hit on his backside and was pissed that he got bonused after he was clearly out. When he reached his dead box, one of his teammates said quietly "you still have your armband on" but sadly you can't hear it over the exile players yelling to sweep the area in the vid clip, but it was heard by two of the exile players that were near the flag and was brought up to the head ref when the argument broke out after the game was over. At 3:18 you see the ND player stop walking towards the box and raise his marker, he looks semi paniced when he looks around at 3:19 and at 3:20 he starts his shooting spree.

It wasn't a DMW that won the game for ND, it was piss poor reffing.

-Evil Bob

[FSU_Paintball]

I am opposed to dead man walk because it encourages tons of bonus balling if you know it can happen at your field. Might sound like a wussy opinion, but I don't feel like getting eaten up every time I step out of my bunker because some assclown pulling a deadman walk put everyone on edge

[sbpyro]

As a rec player I get a lot of elminations by sneaking behind the opposing team and either tapping ppl or get close enough that I can't miss, so I'm all for the Deadman walk. However I do not condone lifting up the marker and doing so (that is an indication that you are out). I also do not condone of using eliminated players or recycles as moving bunkers. I got into a huge argument with another player because I see him walk in the ranks of recycles and proceed to eliminate 6 players. The deadman walk is around because ppl are forgetting the fact that unless there is a raised marker the player is still in. All the fields I go to state that when you are elminated. Raise the marker for a couple of seconds to let ppl know you are out. If someone is out in the open with their marker down, now barrel cover, and or obvious breaks, then they are still active.