Is the Dead Man Walk Really that big a deal?

[Blazestorm]

Blaze, you can clearly see his left hand above his head right at the 00:04-00:05 mark on your clip, his hand is siloetted on the ref's orange vest as he's hunched over on his knees and leaning away from the bunker. This occurs right after the exile player says "hand up, get out, you're dead" and you see him raise to his feet off of his knees and exit the bunker. Again, his barrel, as he's hunched over, is clearly above the top of his head, he's one handing the marker and his left hand is raised OVER his head as he turns and leans away from the bunker, all clear signals that he's out. Like I said, watch it closely again.

Hand is not over his head. His fingers are peaking over, and his hand is next to his head, but it's not clearly straight up in the air. Like I said earlier, if someone is getting pinched they may stick the gun up next to the bunker to keep tighter

He one hands the marker in his right hand, this is not someone prepared to gun fight his way out, this is someone signalling they're out especially since his left hand is NO WHERE near his marker since ITS OVER THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS HEAD which again, is nicely siloetted by the ref's orange vest.

At 00:06 in your clip, he's clearly shot on the right butt cheek, the impact is clearly visible and the resulting white spot as he's walking away, he was bonus balled by the second player he shoots out at the ND flag station. Its also clearly visible again at 00:36 and 00:37 as he's walking to the dead box, this hit is visible BEFORE he starts shooting the exile players out at 00:39.


That is the "RASE" or Smartparts Logo from the RASE pants he is wearing. Go look at some pictures of them, they have a white SQUARE logo. Not the round hit you see later.

Yes, the first exile player he shoots, which is the one on the right of the screen, does shoot him lower on the leg, back of the thigh at 00:45 which is BELOW the hit he took at 00:06 and the second player he shot out coming in from the left shoots him in the left arm and on the left side of the head as he turns to shoot player 3 who's walking around the upright at the left side of the flag. The gun fight at the end happens 8 feet from the flag, which is considerably closer then your previously stated "nowhere near it", yes he's close enough to exchange words with players in he deadbox which did happen, but all you hear on this clip is the louder yelling, the rest of it is muffled.


Dude. He knew what he was doing, the ref knew what he was doing, he wasn't at the back center bunker (still 5-8 feet from the starting gate) and he made his move. His teammates didn't say anything to him.

I appreciate the fact that you took the time to edit the clip and cut it down to just the meat and potatos and put your thoughts into it to explain your point of view, I just wish you had actually watched it closely before hand and you wouldn't have wasted so much of your time on it.


A.) That was not a hit. B.) If the ref didn't know what he was doing, why didn't he pull the ND Player, claiming he already called out? Because he knew he was pulling a DMW. So did the other ref. If you're reffing, and a player appears to be walking out, but doesn't signal or remove his armband, you usually rip the armband.

You claim that the refs knew what was going on, but I beg to differ as they had a very loud argument at the end of the game about it, it was pretty evident that they didn't really know what was going on, the head field ref, the guy with the towel kept telling the other 3 refs to shut the hell and he would do all the talking when the event head ref arrived to render a ruling. This really set the exile players off as it appeared to be clear favoritism by the head field ref. There's alot more here then meets the eye as this clip only shows you part of what happened.

How is there favoritism? He's clean. He never signalled he was hit. He shot 3 guys clean, one guy shot back, they pulled a one for one. That is perfect unbiased reffing. There was an arguement because the Exile players just lost a game they should have won because I believe it was Corey, pulled the ninja move on them.

-Evil Bob

Raising your hand above your head. Not your fingers. Is calling yourself out.

If you wanna see even worse rules, my teammate pulled a 3 on 1 DMW because according to the rules (No armbands that day, they lost them) so to call yourself out you had to stick your GUN above your head. Hand didn't matter. Your GUN had to be up. Know what he did? Waved his hand out and waited for the shooting to stop, walked out, did the same thing corey did and waited, shot all 3 and traded with the last one. Was it sketchy? Yes. Was it legal? Yes. Same with this, perfectly legal. After witnessing this so many times, I keep my gun up on the last players all of the time. I wait till they're bands are off and they're in the deadbox.

[MadPSIence]

it should be legal as long as you don't put an arm up or anything. it's just deception, not cheating.

it's the same as a football player faking a pass..

[-=Squid=-]

Having a hit on you calls you out. I just stand up, and walk off the field, or run, that way people shoot at me rather than my teammates. Who cares about getting shot. Seriously.

Why do people whine so much about every little thing?

[hitech]

Having a hit on you calls you out. I just stand up, and walk off the field, or run, that way people shoot at me rather than my teammates.

No it doesn't. You have to signal yourself out. And that's one of the reasons I think it should be against the rules to NOT PROPERLY signal yourself out

[-=Squid=-]

No it doesn't. You have to signal yourself out. And that's one of the reasons I think it should be against the rules to NOT PROPERLY signal yourself out

Yet again: My point has been missed.

I shall explain: The point is that you shouldn't need to signal yourself out. You're hit... That means you are out. Get off the field when the ref pulls your armband. The ref doing this is the proper signal, along with the hit on your body. If you miss it, oh well, if you get shot again, oh well. It doesn't hurt, especially when comparing to other sports. Paintball players are so damn whiney.

[Blazestorm]

Squid smeaks the truth (yes smeaks.)

I could care less if someone signals they're out, most of the time you shoot them and they just walk away, it would be easier if they wave or something, because I've had times when I couldn't see if they were running to the deadbox because a bunker was in the way. And so I had no idea if he was gone.

[Evil Bob]

Raising your hand above your head. Not your fingers. Is calling yourself out.

Semantics... last I checked fingers are part of your hand, IE. he had part of his hand clearly raised above the top of his head. Please show me in the 2002 rules for this series where it defines how much of your hand needs to be above your head to signal being out and I'll concede this one to you. Additionally, he was bent over and on his knees just starting to stand up, that's about as straight as his arm is going to get as he's trying to maintain his balance with his arms as he stands. Its close enough that it should have been enforced but wasn't.

Why was the RASE logo not visible in the first couple of steps but then it suddenly appears? Also, if you watch the bunker closely, you can see where the paintball hits it just before the spot appears on his pants which is coincidentally at the very same level as this mark.

-Evil Bob

[Caffiend]

I'm not sure if he was hit or not. But he did raise his hand, close to if not, above his head. I'm not sure how many (if any) of the Exile players saw the hand above the head. I'm pretty sure at least two missed it (the guy doing the "bunkering" and the second guy the ND shoots at the end) so no one might have seen the hand raised. The player yelled "Get out" and the player did. Very nice job by the ND player.

[Blazestorm]

Semantics... last I checked fingers are part of your hand, IE. he had part of his hand clearly raised above the top of his head. Please show me in the 2002 rules for this series where it defines how much of your hand needs to be above your head to signal being out and I'll concede this one to you. Additionally, he was bent over and on his knees just starting to stand up, that's about as straight as his arm is going to get as he's trying to maintain his balance with his arms as he stands. Its close enough that it should have been enforced but wasn't.

Why was the RASE logo not visible in the first couple of steps but then it suddenly appears? Also, if you watch the bunker closely, you can see where the paintball hits it just before the spot appears on his pants which is coincidentally at the very same level as this mark.

-Evil Bob

By those "standards" raising your barrel above your head would be calling yourself out... right?

The logo is visible, I don't want to have to go and freeze more frames to prove it to you.

[Evil Bob]

By those "standards" raising your barrel above your head would be calling yourself out... right?

Now you're simply being argumentative. In the situation we have here, yes, raising your marker or any part of it above your head in the appearance of a surrender as the ND player did here (when you have both hands up and seperated) would be calling yourself out.

The reason he doesn't have his hands all the way up is simply kinematics and how the body moves. He's bent over, you can only raise your hands so far behind your head at an angle while trying to maintain your balance. Try this yourself and see how comfy it is. Now try it from a kneeing position as you're trying to stand up while one handing your marker. Not that easy is it.

The only grey area that might exist here is how we each define calling yourself out, with that I appeal to the rule as outlined for that particular series with regards to calling oneself out. Dig them up and show us all here how much of the hand needs to be up according to the rules, and I'll concede the point to you.

-Evil Bob

[Blazestorm]

You can signal yourself out.

You're told to raise your hand or marker above your head. That means your entire hand. Not part. As with the marker example, you rather raise your hand/marker above your head or you don't. There is a grey area, if you're in the grey area, you're not calling yourself out.

I just did it in numerous positions, it was no trouble to have my entire hand above my head. I held my marker, I knelt down, I crouch-walked I did whatever, maybe I have long arms or something.

He did not signal himself out technically. It appeared he did. But he didn't. Hell the only reason I even say Hit anymore is so my team knows I died, I don't signal, I just walk out. I spend about 5 seconds behind my bunker wondering what I did wrong then I walk out.

[MarkM]

You can signal yourself out.

Hell the only reason I even say Hit anymore is so my team knows I died, I don't signal, I just walk out. I spend about 5 seconds behind my bunker wondering what I did wrong then I walk out.

Do that on a field I am reffing and I will 1 for 1 you, since you are holding up the play deliberately. I will also ignore any shouts from you asking for a 1 for 1 against the other team who will be still shooting at you since you have not indicated to them (and me) that you are eliminated.

[-=Squid=-]

Do that on a field I am reffing and I will 1 for 1 you, since you are holding up the play deliberately. I will also ignore any shouts from you asking for a 1 for 1 against the other team who will be still shooting at you since you have not indicated to them (and me) that you are eliminated.

You 1 for 1 if someone just starts walking off the field?

lol

[Lohman446]

You 1 for 1 if someone just starts walking off the field?

lol

No Squid, he 1 for 1s someone for not leaving there bunker after being shot in a reasonable amount of time... I'm sure you think on the field, those pauses after being hit - I think we have all done them - can be for any number of reasons. To figure the position of the refs and consider its "obviousness", or simply to pause a rapidly devloping play by the other team, allowing your team to react... and five seconds is a pretty good pause

[Evil Bob]

At 20 bps, you can have 100 rounds in the air in 5 seconds. The average person can run 10+ yards in 5 seconds. Lots can happen.

-Evil Bob