Is the Dead Man Walk Really that big a deal?

[Blazestorm]

Do that on a field I am reffing and I will 1 for 1 you, since you are holding up the play deliberately. I will also ignore any shouts from you asking for a 1 for 1 against the other team who will be still shooting at you since you have not indicated to them (and me) that you are eliminated.

Not realistically 5 seconds, more like .5 - 2 seconds, just feels like 5 seconds. I look at where I got hit, look out of my bunker to see who shot me, then walk out, I don't call hit unless my teammates don't know I got shot, I don't run off the field or jog.

I never question a call, I may ask afterwords why the call was made, to understand better, but that's it. And I don't care about getting overshot, one of my good friends on oakland, it was like a 7 on 1, he was at my 30, I go run after him and shoot him once in the face, he is still fiddling with his hopper, once he gets it on and turned on (around the time I shoot him) I already call out cause I know I'm going to get shot another 10-15 times... turns out nobody shot me but him, had 14 hits on me

I never ask for 1 for 1's either, it's pointless, it's the refs job to determine if one is needed, not the player.

[xsiegex]

I've seen some one pull the dead mans walk on my field. All you have to do is walk around with your gun up, and if someone asks you if your in or out you shoot them. If I see someone walking around like that not yelling out or deadman everynow and then I'll paint them up

[SlartyBartFast]

Well Squid, what rules do you play under? Regardless of your personal justification of your behaviour, it is clearly a case of intentionally playing-on. You are admitting attempting to behaving in a manner that influences the game after you have been eliminated.

As per many of these discussions, the specific rules are required reading.

20.01 Field Exit. Eliminated players must remove armband, put on barrel sock over his
or her marker barrel and proceed directly to the dead box closest to team flag station, using the
most direct route or according to the direction of a Field Ref, if any is given.

Interestingly both PSP and NPPL rules are quite clear it is the PLAYER"S responsibility to call themselves eliminated except for unobvious hits or obvious hits that cannot be easily verified.

Well, that alone eliminates most behaviour that accompanies attempts at a DMW.

(9) Dead Man Walks are prohibited: as defined herein: Players that take such
action that would cause members of the opposing team or field referees to
reasonably believe that such players have been eliminated, including but not
limited to, calling themselves hit or out, hiding their armbands, holding the
markers above the shoulders, placing objects in the barrel, walking with
eliminated player(s), turning away from oncoming aggressive player(s) will be
eliminated. Players who have been marked by a player doing a dead man
walk will be reinstated in the game by a referee unless their armband has
already been removed then the player is eliminated.

I really don't know why the NPPL had to rule the above as DMW. Interdiction of the various behaviours and accompanying penalties was all that was needed.

Playing on:

Players who are eliminated should place their hand or marker above their head and immediately proceed to the dead box. Failure to do so will result in a major penalty.

Well Squid, you DO have to take action in the PSP rules as well as the NPPL rules.

The above effectively puts to rest shady DMWs as long as the refs have the balls to make the calls. And before someone tries to finnesse their way around the rules, an elimination MUST be signalled according to the elimination rules.

4.7.1. An eliminated player must immediately and swiftly raise their marker or an open hand above their head and proceed out-of-bounds by the most direct route or as directed by a judge.

Once again you are required to perform a specific action to indicate your elimination. The unnumbered playing-on rule would make failure to comply a playing-on offense IMO.

[SlartyBartFast]

You 1 for 1 if someone just starts walking off the field?

lol

Sure, why not? If you don't signal your elimination when you are eliminated it can be construed as playing-on.

[FallNAngel]

All you have to do is walk around with your gun up, and if someone asks you if your in or out you shoot them.

Having your gun up signals that you're out

Sure, why not? If you don't signal your elimination when you are eliminated it can be construed as playing-on.

playing on by walking off the field? I can see *not* getting off the field, continuing to shoot / talk / etc but for walking off the field and not yelling "hit" ?

[Lohman446]

playing on by walking off the field? I can see *not* getting off the field, continuing to shoot / talk / etc but for walking off the field and not yelling "hit" ?

4.7.1. An eliminated player must immediately and swiftly raise their marker or an open hand above their head and proceed out-of-bounds by the most direct route or as directed by a judge.

Yes... thats the rule, right there - you do not have to shout hit or out, but you MUST (not should) raise your marker or hand above your head and proceed out of bounds - this is how the rule is written, anything else is in violation and can be construed as playing on, or failing to "call" oneself out....

And there are reasons for that rule... I have taken several extra shots, and kept the other teams attention, by failure to follow it - it does impact game play and *should* - though never has, warrant a penalty

[SlartyBartFast]

playing on by walking off the field?

Yes. For two very simple reasons:

1 - You're breaking the rule requiring you to clearly signal your elimination.
2 - Walking/Running/Jogging/Intent is a determination that the refs should not have to make. Either you are or you are not following the elimination rule.

Both the PSP and the NPPL are VERY clear about which actions MUST be taken when eliminated and which actions are interpreted as signalling an elimination.

By Squid's admission, his reason to just walk off field and not signal being eliminated is to continue to affect the game even after being eliminated. That is CLEARLY intent to play-on.

It's like the justification for not checking on's self and waiting for a ref to call eliminations. Like it or not, it is clearly and undeniably against the rules and playing-on. If you're honest and morally sound you know that any justification for bending the rules or not following badly enforced rules is cheating.

[-=Squid=-]

The ref pulls my armband off. I walk off the field. I don't care if I get shot extra, it's better than looking like a goober with your gun in the air. Walking off the field with no armband on is a good enough signal, it's obvious if you have one on or not.

And Slarty, hell no I'm not reading your post with all those stupid broken down quotes. You shouldn't need to do that to make a point.

If I alter the game by walking off the field, the other team just sucks. Simple as that. If I see someone walking off the field, I shoot a rope of paint towards them, and RARELY do I ever see anyone eliminated by me or my team with more than 5 hits on them. It's no big deal. Maybe you just don't have much tournament experience, because any good team I play against does the same thing, and the people losing are the ones whining about being shot 5 times. Lemme guess, they are losing because we're playing on?

I laugh.

EDIT: I'm sure it or something similar is coming, so I will just do it for you: I suppose I am an elitist cockwad.

[Lohman446]

The ref pulls my armband off. I walk off the field. I don't care if I get shot extra, it's better than looking like a goober with your gun in the air. Walking off the field with no armband on is a good enough signal, it's obvious if you have one on or not.

And Slarty, hell no I'm not reading your post with all those stupid broken down quotes. You shouldn't need to do that to make a point.

.

Screw the rules - I need to look "cool"....

And no way am I reading the rules that illustrate your point.... because they would prove your point valid

[-=Squid=-]

Screw the rules - I need to look "cool"....

And no way am I reading the rules that illustrate your point.... because they would prove your point valid

I should draw you a little chart showing how little I care. We don't play PSP, and most tournaments follow NPPL rules, not PSP. Assuming it's the same, see your title.

[Automaggot68]

Screw the rules - I need to look "cool"....

And no way am I reading the rules that illustrate your point.... because they would prove your point valid

Why do you even care?

How often do you play tournies?

I can almost garuntee that it isn't as much as Squid does.

[Lohman446]

Why do you even care?

How often do you play tournies?

I can almost garuntee that it isn't as much as Squid does.

Oh.. yeh, I never play tournaments - about a dozen a year, normally two majors... I care that the rules are BS - I care that we have to have this "attitude" about paintball. So I don't play enough tournaments to have an opinion? Besides, my comment was to Squids post, nothing more - he pretty much said he didn't care how the rules read because it woudl make him look not cool...

[FallNAngel]

And there are reasons for that rule... I have taken several extra shots, and kept the other teams attention, by failure to follow it - it does impact game play and *should* - though never has, warrant a penalty

I can see doing it because the rules say to... but I gotta go with Squid on this... if you're walking off the field and manage to not only get shot more, but also keep their attention, there's something wrong with the other team. I can see taking a few extra... that's your fault for not (more) clearly showing you're eliminated and getting off the field... but keeping their attention?

Yes, you should signal you're out and you should get off the field quickly. Hell, if you go exactly by the rules, you must do it. I can't see just walking away from your bunker completely changing the game as opposed to holding your hand up when you do it.

[Lohman446]

You dont' think, standing in your bunker, getting shot and stepping in closer until a ref pulls you, can make a difference compared to putting your hand up instantly...? It looks innocent enough, but you know you are hit, you need to IMMEDIATLY get yourself out and signal your elimination. Games are fast paced, and a two second pause in a move can make a big difference

[FallNAngel]

You dont' think, standing in your bunker, getting shot and stepping in closer until a ref pulls you, can make a difference compared to putting your hand up instantly...?

Yes, but I said absolutely nothing about stepping in closer and waiting for a ref to pull me. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said getting shot and walking off the field. It's really not complicated... you get shot, you stop whatever you're doing, about-face (or turn to the tapeline if it's closer) and walk off. Will you get shot more? Perhaps, but I really don't think you'll be holding the game up.