Why has the 'Cocker survived, while the Mag suffers?

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  • Vigilantrix
    Mech-warrior
    • Dec 2003
    • 34

    #1

    Why has the 'Cocker survived, while the Mag suffers?

    I've owned both, Cockers and Mags. This past weekend at Castle Conquest I realized just how much I missed my RT ULE. My SFL Cockers (mech and eBlade) are great guns for the most part, but can be a real ***** too. I rarely chopped once with my Mech, but a ball too fat for my barrel went in my eBlade and of course left my ACE useless. So pretty much everyball after that was getting chopped or I would lose my rythm. I was just like man... that crap never happened with my Level 10 bolt!

    So now I want to come back to Mag-land. And I began to think about Mags VS. Cockers, and wondered why the Cocker has been so successful, though it seems to have slowed down in recent years. I mean the more I look at the Mag, the more it's design seems or seemed ahead of it's time. Why did so many third party aftermarket producers continue to provide for the Cocker and cut their line-up of parts for the Mag?

    My thoughts on this are simply as follows. In the beginning the Cocker needed the parts to be worth a damn. Somehow this mentality has continued to carry thru (mainly because WGP's quality control sucks IMO). It almost seems as though AGD did TOO good a job of keeping the Mag shooting just fine without the likes of Palmer, Shocktech or any other custom house producing a better performance part. So where did AGD go wrong? Did AGD go wrong?

    My only thoughts in regards to this can be cosmetics. The only available aluminum bodies for the longest time seemed to come from PTP with the MicroMags. Everyone wanst a light and "pretty" gun. Did AGD shoot themselves in the foot by not producing the ULE bodies earlier? The X-Valve, ULT kit & Level 10 bolt are still great pieces of mechanical engineering and AGD should be praised for their work with those fine 3 performance upgrades. So where should AGD go from here? A Mag with a new body style is the best way for them to come back in my opinion. The Millennium Falcon, "she may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts" approach just isn't what many players look for anymore. They want performance AND style.

    I love AGD, their designs & policies. The only reason the Cocker has continued is do to WGP'sability to advertise and hype an inferior product that is really begining to show its age. I would like to see more companies like CP produce body kits for Mags and throw some aftermarket attention back at the Mags. Kudos to Colin @ DeadlyWind, and anyone else realizing the Mag's potential, but the serious need for it's cosmetic revival. I'm considering changing my major to machining just so I can start producing Mag bodies of my own and give back to a company that deserves some more recognition in this industry!
    Steven | Team Crimson Reign | Ambush Ref Crew

    Workin' on that whole "I don't own a Mag" thing...
  • SlartyBartFast
    The Flying Scotsman
    • Jun 2002
    • 2940

    #2
    People are stupid and AGD can't market worth a damn.

    paintball is populated with Ricers. Idiots who spend more time and money pimping their markers out and buying 'upgrades' that do little for performance.

    The Automag doesn't have enough widgets to replace and all the changes are too obviously cosmetic and even the worst upgrade fiend can't justify them for performance reasons.

    Then AGD abandoned the paintball market to develop side projects.

    When the FN303 was finished even spectacular advances couldn't regain attention and interest.

    Comment

    • WARPED1
      I'm a pirate, ARRRRRRRRRR!
      • Nov 2001
      • 7458

      #3
      The 'cocker survives because it changes and adapts with the times, even if it is just a cosmetic. The mag stayed the same for 10 years or more until very recently with all the ULE stuff.
      [Something Cool is Here]

      Comment

      • SummaryJudgement
        Selling stuff, good stuff.
        • Aug 2004
        • 1944

        #4
        You've made some good points. If there would have been a wider variation of custom bodies years ago, that may have helped. And it always seemed that there wasn't much you could "do" to a mag. That is, probably, because you didn't need to.

        However, people like to screw with their gear in one way or another. And to some degree that may have helped the cocker for many years. Yes, stock cockers have sucked for years, but because you had so many options it allowed you to take it to the level of performance you wanted (or could afford) and allowed you to have something that much more individualized.

        I also never believed that AGD marketed their gear as well as other companies. Cockers have probably been successful also because if you look around their are five dozen diffferent manufacturers screaming their heads off about the new and improved such and such, or this and that. Bodies, bolts, internals, gripframes, pneumatics! Step right up and check out the ultra slick, super milled, re-designed...whatever!

        You could argue that AGD didn't go about "whoring" themselves out as much as other companies marketing every little thing they could think to sell. They offered a good product. It was reliable, performed well, and had a handful of options you could choose from. Unfortunately, these things don't necesarilly mean huge sales these days. It's a mad world

        Comment

        • WARPED1
          I'm a pirate, ARRRRRRRRRR!
          • Nov 2001
          • 7458

          #5
          But AGD should've whored themselves out and stayed with the times and gave people what they wanted, that may not always be what they need, but you make no money in paintball by making a marker near flawless out of the box. People want to tinker for the most part. Mags needed many add ons and upgrades.
          [Something Cool is Here]

          Comment

          • MonsterMag
            Got Emag? I dont...Dm4 :)
            • Aug 2004
            • 1093

            #6
            The Eblade and raceframes helped out a lot. More upgrades and the pros's use em

            WARNING , Attention all Xbox owners, Power Cord defect)

            Come play me
            Gametag= jtm560

            Comment

            • phantomhitman
              ao's official bad guy
              • Oct 2003
              • 1841

              #7
              eblade was a big reason, and the fact that the cocker stayed price friendly helped. used cockers have always been cheap because no one wants to maintain them. you still see a ton of mags but they are the red headed step children, not talked about and left alone.
              my feedback
              countdown on devilmag day........ill let you now

              Comment

              • WARPED1
                I'm a pirate, ARRRRRRRRRR!
                • Nov 2001
                • 7458

                #8
                Originally posted by MonsterMag
                The Eblade and raceframes helped out a lot. More upgrades and the pros's use em
                Yes, even Worr loved the Eblade so much, they bought/distributed Eblades, added some firing modes and called them Worr Blades.
                [Something Cool is Here]

                Comment

                • sniper1rfa
                  (Not a Wang Force member.)
                  • Aug 2001
                  • 1107

                  #9
                  You guys are totally missing it.

                  Its the backblock. The automag does not have a backblock, and therefore does not have the same following of the cocker.

                  Seriously. Backblocks rock.

                  I love my micromag too, but it totally doesnt have a backblock.
                  "The Fine Print: Discontinue use if your eyeballs suddenly get way smaller."

                  Comment

                  • EqualsP
                    Registered User
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 44

                    #10
                    =) it's definatly all about the back block.. watching that part move back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth....... err.. it's hypnotising.. =)

                    =P
                    {home field:Camp Paintball} {scenario team: Pub Crawling} {home field away from home: EMR Paintball}

                    Comment

                    • WingMan13
                      Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 828

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MonsterMag
                      and the pros's use em
                      I think this was a big factor. The top WINNING pro teams used Cockers, then Ebladed ones. The hottest selling gear is what the Pros use.....

                      Click Here For My Feedback

                      Comment

                      • EqualsP
                        Registered User
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 44

                        #12
                        also, I do want to quickly add, look at the large number of aftermarket parts for a 'cocker vs those for a mag. Those aftermarket parts probably help as well. a person walks into a pro shop, looks at the shelves and shelves of extra parts for a cocker and realizes that there is an upgrade path or a way to easily replace something that breaks.. automags don't have such a large amount of aftermarket parts and it may be psycological (this isn't the point to start an evanalistical argument that mags don't break or tote the machining genius of AGD... everything breaks, and most everyone wants to customize thier equipment some how...)

                        edit: heh, that'll teach me to post without fully comprehending the previous posts.. I didn't mean to be redundent..

                        =P
                        {home field:Camp Paintball} {scenario team: Pub Crawling} {home field away from home: EMR Paintball}

                        Comment

                        • SummaryJudgement
                          Selling stuff, good stuff.
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 1944

                          #13
                          Originally posted by sniper1rfa
                          You guys are totally missing it.

                          Its the backblock. The automag does not have a backblock, and therefore does not have the same following of the cocker.

                          Seriously. Backblocks rock.

                          I love my micromag too, but it totally doesnt have a backblock.
                          c [Getting weird weird looks from co-workers]

                          Comment

                          • FallNAngel
                            Registered User
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 1076

                            #14
                            Originally posted by WARPED1
                            Yes, even Worr loved the Eblade so much, they bought/distributed Eblades, added some firing modes and called them Worr Blades.
                            Actually, there were no firing modes. The changes were:
                            • bigger trigger guard
                            • new double trigger
                            • dovetail mount
                            • new bolt
                            • new hammer
                            • solenoid cover had a "W" on it


                            everything else was the same
                            O-Ring Kits FS: Matrix/DM4 / Freestyle / Intimidator / Shocker SFT & More!
                            X-Mag F/S Clamping Feed, 3.2 Software, extra battery and more!
                            Coming Soon: Smart Parts MaxFlo and Planet Eclipse EGO kits!

                            Comment

                            • BigEvil
                              www.BigEvilOnline.com

                              • Feb 2005
                              • 9333

                              #15
                              Originally posted by WARPED1
                              But AGD should've whored themselves out and stayed with the times and gave people what they wanted, that may not always be what they need, but you make no money in paintball by making a marker near flawless out of the box. People want to tinker for the most part. Mags needed many add ons and upgrades.
                              Whoring costs money and I dont think they have it or are willing to spend it.

                              Good thread btw. I have wondered about this myself several times

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