Why has the 'Cocker survived, while the Mag suffers?

[VTpaintballer]

ya AGD has some marketing issues

[punkncat]

In the beginning the Cocker needed the parts to be worth a damn.


The only reason the Cocker has continued is do to WGP'sability to advertise and hype an inferior product that is really begining to show its age.

Stock cockers have always been easy to "improve" upon, but did what they were supposed to do right out of the box quite well. In times past I would put a stock cocker against anything(stock) in its market/price range and been happy. Many upgrades for markers are nothing more than hype, with very little if any true change in the end performance.
As was suggested in the post the only real difference in the (perceived)success of the two markers was the amount of hype generated.

WGP (the real thing) never made an inferior product. They would never have had the staying power in the market if they had been.
Its funny that this design thats showing its age so much continues to perform as well as most anything currently available.

[GT]

Two words:

3rd Party

Even if AGD sucked at marketing they could have someone else do it. Hell WGP in thier hay day wasnt great, but I dont have enought fingers and toes to count all of the "custom" cockers that were made.

[nippinout]

We had silly gray toobs that could not be anodized.

Or any parts that you could change and make your gun look cool. Besides a black Diamond Labs valve/reg, sloppy Benchmark 45, or a barrel. You couldn't do much to a mag to make it shiny.

[Kevmaster]

marketing...plane and simple...

[nuclear zombie]

I blame it all on the rail , ptp was taking the mag in the right direction. Companys aren't going to put out a "cool " body to sit upon a blocky rail. What could save the mag at this point ? an affordable unibody that looks cool and without an interchangeable breech because that is a waste of money.

[Hairball]

My honest opinion is that E-Blade/Racegun frames had a huge effect on it. As the market moved towards electros even more a few years ago, Planet Eclipse did an amazing job going, "JESUS CHRIST! YOU NEED AN ELECTRO! MAKE THE COCKER YOU ALREADY HAVE MOW FACES!!" and people lapped it all up. What did the 'mag have? The Hyperframe? If you took a picture of an E-Blade frame sitting next to a Hyperframe, which do you think would look better? Good third-party marketing.

[Vigilantrix]

I strongly agree that e-frames played a HUGE part in the Cockers continued success! And you're right eBlade VS Hyperframe... I'm sorry Centerflag but I've taken dumps that look nicer than that frame. I suppose the thinking was "the Mag community already couldnt give a crap as far as looks are concerned... no need for further milling!"

Maybe something to consider for any potential 3rd party guys. We can't have the hAir trigger, somebody for the love of God please allow us to have at least a semi-attractive e-frame!

[hipster]

you all make good points but the truth is more like cockers used an existing co. with a elec frame to keep up with the times , mag tried to develop an original , and got locked up in a very lengthy law suit by the time it was over agd went back to woods ball not airball

mags make the best cosmetic bodies and the rail is sleek , far better than any cocker but its all about the electro market these days and agd has opted not to make a rail thats comatable with the e blade and pre installed, so if you want an electro its got to be out sourced ( logic, devil etc.)
and lets face it 80 percent of gun sales is done by seeing holding and dry firing in a store you cna,t do that with a mag ,no store carries devil mags , logic already on a mag or even hyper frame they don't exist in stores you have to order it , that means no sales

[Duzzy]

On the E-Blade / Race Frame point:

We now have the option of a $450 electronic Automag frame but how many people are going after it? And isn't the E-2 about the same price?

Buy an RT Custom and add the frame and it adds up to about the same as an "upped" Autococker but yet no one is jumping on them.

So in short, I don't think the E-Frames for Autocockers is really that much of an issue other than that they came out first. I think there is much more.

[nuclear zombie]

mags make the best cosmetic bodies and the rail is sleek ,

since when was a tube and aluminum bar stock sleek? i guess that makes a 1984 volvo 240 sleek as well

the problem isn't a recent one , it stems from Tom turning his attention to government contracts and not on paintball. When the mags were the most popular he should have invested in bringing everything in-house instead of out sourced to machine shops. Other companies can't make money off of a custom e-mag. When by time they buy it , the price has been marked up two times. When he released the e-mag it should have been an aluminum railess design with multiple cosmetic designs that looked and functioned well. People wanted what the x-mag was , except without the 6 month wait. Now people want more than the x-mag can offer , if the top of the line marker put out by a company doesn't meet your demands, then why would you spend money on something not quite as good, put out by the same company. Cockers met the demand of the market, mags met the demand of an engineer.

[VFX_Fenix]

Ah, but how many Mags come stock with a Deadly Wind body?

Cockers at least have some milling and look like something besides tubes on barstock. (an exageration)

[WARPED1]

Ah, but how many Mags come stock with a Deadly Wind body?

Cockers at least have some milling and look like something besides tubes on barstock. (an exageration)

DW bodies aren't all that, nice, but not the best. But there's only so much you can do with a slug.................

[hardr0ck68]

cheap asian made parts, lots of sponcership, lies "they shoot farther, flatter.....ect ect ect", loads of doodads to replace with "better" parts (better is quoted because no one actually bothers to test these claims, there just made and accepted).

and of course big old Bud Orr, who came up with a revolutionary design. I mean he made the first semi-auto in the game right? No, what? well he made the first pump conversion with common off the shelf phnumatic parts right? No!!! what??? Well im sure he wasent just given the design from Glen Palmer, right? Ohh but thats not true either....huh. I still wounder who had the most to gain from Glens first semi getting stolen.

[Miscue]

The back block is mesmorizing... you can fix/tinker your cocker all week... shops can sell all sorts of parts for it, thus pushing the cocker... 3rd party guys loved it and basically provided free marketing for WGP... for a long period of time the Mag had no response to the aesthetic advantage of the cocker...

Red, blue, or pewter? No no no! Black, grey, or polished!