2008 Automag . . .

[ProblemKinder]

lol I get ignoored on the internetz just like in real life....

so if they make a emag with BB eyes, 9 volt and 2 lbs, why would anybody that knows nothing about mags buy it over a DM, PM or ego or something? of course we'd all buy one we know the quality that is a mag, but as far as the other 90% of the market...they will be reluctant to buy it.

we need to blow them away with something crazy. like a 100% mech gun that shoots like an electro..... now where have i heard of one of those before....

[RRfireblade]

That would almost require stipping down the valves if an x valve retails for $275. Umm , doubt I'd expect to be paying full MSRP for the valves. :) Can you really sell mainbody, board, solenoid, eyes, gripframe, milling and anodizing for an extra 200-300 more and maintain quality? Certainly. Quality doesn't cost extra and quality control is a bargin at half the price. If so wouldn't AGD have made their emags much cheaper a while ago?
Since they didn't it could be concluded that either:
A) an emag is below cost in the $500 or so price range
B) an emag would still turn a profit in that range, but overall AGD makes more gross profit selling at their current price (supply and demand) and this whole idea for a new gun to compete in the mainstream market may not work very well.

AGD hasn't 'made' Emags for years. Thier MSRP pricing goes way back from then. Dealers have always sold Emags for less than AGD and made money . . . not to mention Emags have some excessively costly parts in them for what they are. HES , 18V custom battery , Oversize Noid , Costly PCB and display , etc. There's tons of fat to trim off there.

Since today's mainstream is looking for light wieght, shoots fast (easy to meet), and looks good; I would focus on attaining these features rather than price, especially since some players throw so much money away buying new guns anyway.


Sooooooooo
The problem is we would either need an x-mag with break beam eyes, that could be manufactured quickly and cost less to produce than the x-mag did in it's day. Or we need a Mini (small, light weight, good performance).
As we all know the Mini is everything the MAINSTREAM wants a mag to be. All WE could do is make the same gun, but put in an X valve and Y grip which would get crushed by the Mini since ours would be bigger, heavier and cost more, and no one in the mainstream would really care about the extra performance of the x valve at the sacrifice of weight and price.

That's purely speculation. I might gamble some people would care about quality over absolute minimal cost as long there is parity in the overall package. There's tons of competition out there , go to your local field and count how many different markers are there on a given day. There 'could' be room for one more.

Now all we are left with as an option to produce is an X-mag which has been gone over manytimes in this forum as to why it isn't in production anymore.


Basically the X valve is the death of the mag since it is too heavy for the likes of the mainstream (an X-mag is as light as it can be, but with this valve it is way heavier than most guns today).

Xmags were also excessively costly due to the importing of the body from AGDE. There were a few reason why AGD stopping importing them while AGDE was still offereing them. AND . . . FYI :) an all ULE Emag is lighter than an Xmag and I have Emags that will blow that away. I'm not at all concerned at all with weight. :)

So where does that leave us? Well it is difficult to market to the mainstream so all we can really do is make sluggo bodies, have people make their own AGG bodies and hopefully distribute these "AGG Mags" through a larger distributor. Basically devilmags are what is needed, but assembled on a large scale, not one person doing custom orders.

[b] That of course , will never happen. Sluggos come from AGD and are WAY WAY too coslty for any redistribution effort to be worth while.

Other than that we would need to think up some new features to add. Something out there and I don't have any ideas, but it would have to be as out there as the "ports for air accessories" that the Classic RT had...

Good points tho ,I appreciate the input. Obviously there are issues to overcome for anything like this to happen. I doubt even in a best case scenerio , a new AGD marker would be maintream persay but that doesn't mean we can't grab ahold of the older more intelligent crowd who knows and cares about how there money is spent and what they get for it. Those are the people I expect to be around the sport in the long haul. But you never really know.

[RRfireblade]

so if they make a emag with BB eyes, 9 volt and 2 lbs, why would anybody that knows nothing about mags buy it over a DM, PM or ego or something? of course we'd all buy one we know the quality that is a mag, but as far as the other 90% of the market...they will be reluctant to buy it.

Basically how every new marker has ever started out tho. You need good marketing , good hype and good press/reviews and people will take notice if everything else about sounds good.

Heck , a sweet 2 min phone cam video on the nation could have the kiddies spitting out there cheerios , if you do it right.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Basically how every new marker has ever started out tho. You need good marketing , good hype and good press/reviews and people will take notice if everything else about sounds good.

Heck , a sweet 2 min phone cam video on the nation could have the kiddies spitting out there cheerios , if you do it right.

not only that but anything that is remotly new that works good will give the gadget freaks wet dreamz.

honestly I say we re-make the MQ mag if the patent is open. Or use my idea (which is sorta like the MQ mag)

Other than the tac-1 bodys AGD hasen't done anything new for quite a while, I say it's about time they get back on the hourse

GOD i wish I had access to a CAD Program.... I could draw out the idea in my head...

[Badmovies.org]

I like it how Automags (of whatever species) are modular. You take parts off one and put them onto another, everything still works. AGD's decision to redo the RT as the RT Pro and make it compatible with everything else was a great thing.

New body design(s)
New rail design(s)
Dual detents
Break beam eyes option
Trigger frames: 45, Vertical, and Y-Grip styles
Bolt on pneumag kit option
Lightweight electronic lowers option

And this one is the hard one, can we find a way to route the air feedline from the ASA to the valve, probably through the grip? Also, make it so you can bleed that line. The only complaint I have about using an AGD Flatline Reg is that it does not have a way to bleed the line without going through the mess of using a slidecheck.

Here's the problem I see looking at what I listed - it being economically feasible. Sure, I want all of that, but I think what it boils down to is that we need more options that are easy to install. We need a body and rail that are ready for break beam eyes, if you install the module. We need a pneumag kit that can be easily installed, without the person needing drilling.

And I'd really like to see some new body designs that are readily available. I've seen them in some of the brainstorming threads. A number of talented people have shown some cool designs. Personally, I'd like to see something with lines inspired by an Orca or dolphin.

[ProblemKinder]

Basically how every new marker has ever started out tho. You need good marketing , good hype and good press/reviews and people will take notice if everything else about sounds good.

Heck , a sweet 2 min phone cam video on the nation could have the kiddies spitting out there cheerios , if you do it right.

while I sort of agree with you, i don't think spitting out their cheerios is good enough. i think for most people seeing a mag shoot relatively fast will make them spit out their cheerios, but it won't get them to buy one. you need people spitting cheerios out their noses. we need to give them a real reason to look at their beautiful PM6, '07 Ego or their precious G7 Fly, and decide "I want that mag"

i've said it before and i'll say it again. pneumag will get the cheerios flyin.

[Ninjeff]

while I sort of agree with you, i don't think spitting out their cheerios is good enough. i think for most people seeing a mag shoot relatively fast will make them spit out their cheerios, but it won't get them to buy one. you need people spitting cheerios out their noses. we need to give them a real reason to look at their beautiful PM6, '07 Ego or their precious G7 Fly, and decide "I want that mag"

i've said it before and i'll say it again. pneumag will get he cheerios flyin.

now THATS a slogan.

[trevorjk]

pneumag will get he cheerios flyin.

maybe a pnuemag that is actually shooting cheerios into a bowl of milk... then someone taking a spoon and eating the cheerios!

[cyrus-the-virus]

I think AO has ADD...

[trevorjk]

I think AO has ADD...

ive ALWAYS had ADD

and ive stated my opinions... they went largely unnoticed. i feel for the "mag" to become ANYTHING more succesful then its current state that it NEEDS to have a redisgned on/off valve. one that does NOT cause such fluctuations no matter what BPS is being shot. if this can be done and still maintain the high rate of fire the x-valve is know for; then the mag can definetly become more "mainstream" since by doing that it would open up a hole new market for the mags. actual microswitches, boards, triggers, eyes, far more trigger frames, ect. what the mag needs, is to be able to accept aftermarket products with out having to worry about tolerances off by .005 of an inch

[RRfireblade]

ive ALWAYS had ADD

and ive stated my opinions... they went largely unnoticed. i feel for the "mag" to become ANYTHING more succesful then its current state that it NEEDS to have a redisgned on/off valve. one that does NOT cause such fluctuations no matter what BPS is being shot. if this can be done and still maintain the high rate of fire the x-valve is know for; then the mag can definetly become more "mainstream" since by doing that it would open up a hole new market for the mags. actual microswitches, boards, triggers, eyes, far more trigger frames, ect. what the mag needs, is to be able to accept aftermarket products with out having to worry about tolerances off by .005 of an inch

Not overlooked but noted , and agree somewhat. I would also be concerned with leaving it reactive in any case.

[rabidchihauhau]

My personal suggestion is - go back to the roots of what Tom thought would happen with the mag - everyone would build their own car and use his AIR as the engine.

Make a buttload of different bodies with places for but without any of the necessaries - make a ray gun, a phaser, a BAR, an M16, and AK, a Pulse Rifle, etc., etc. Leave off anything in decent supply from the aftermarket crowd (keep costs down) and sell them without valves - except for the first one

[Ninjeff]

My personal suggestion is - go back to the roots of what Tom thought would happen with the mag - everyone would build their own car and use his AIR as the engine.

Make a buttload of different bodies with places for but without any of the necessaries - make a ray gun, a phaser, a BAR, an M16, and AK, a Pulse Rifle, etc., etc. Leave off anything in decent supply from the aftermarket crowd (keep costs down) and sell them without valves - except for the first one

Hmm. That sounds a bit impracticle, but a solid theory. I like the idea. A milsim mag, speedball mag, pump mag....etc etc

[Rabbit]

After reading all that, I can honestly say, Why? Nothing you can do to a Mag is going to lure the Proto-pajama-poseurs away from the Next Best Marker. Just refer to all the gimp threads on the Nation about Mags in general. You want eyes, electronics, modes, light weight? Go buy an Ion, Mini, whatever.

We had the E-Mag, and people whined about them. Why rehash all that? Electro's are all about RRoF and Fire-modes, all they accomplish is masking bad skill by allowing retarded amounts of paint in the air.

Personally, I would really like to see a new Mag. But sticking anything containing a battery on it other than a loader is an exercise in futility. You won't make anyone happy, no matter how you design it, so leave it alone. Only the faithful owners will buy one, and then you are back in the same old boat, only you have a few new leaks to deal with.

[Ninjeff]

After reading all that, I can honestly say, Why? Nothing you can do to a Mag is going to lure the Proto-pajama-poseurs away from the Next Best Marker. Just refer to all the gimp threads on the Nation about Mags in general. You want eyes, electronics, modes, light weight? Go buy an Ion, Mini, whatever.

We had the E-Mag, and people whined about them. Why rehash all that? Electro's are all about RRoF and Fire-modes, all they accomplish is masking bad skill by allowing retarded amounts of paint in the air.

Personally, I would really like to see a new Mag. But sticking anything containing a battery on it other than a loader is an exercise in futility. You won't make anyone happy, no matter how you design it, so leave it alone. Only the faithful owners will buy one, and then you are back in the same old boat, only you have a few new leaks to deal with.

Well, let it never be said that AOers arent optimists. Lol.

Still, i agree. No use in treading down the same path as every other gun maker. Go pnuematics.