Introducing the Micromag 2009

[Drix]

Try www.emachineshop.com?

[p8ntbal4me]

If you dont test fit the parts & send it to ano & something is wrong will PTP cover the cost of a new ano?

A test fit is always a good idea, but you know my concerns with the raw aluminum. Just be extra careful if you do. I have a machine vice and fixture set up to assemble the ano'd bodies when they get here - it's just a little tough to align and hold everything without having three hands...

You didnt really answer the question(s).

If we get bodies that are raw, and they have defects which are found after anodizing,.. will PTP cover the cost of new anodizing?

If we get bodies that are anodized, and they have defects ,.. will PTP cover the cost of new anodizing?

I have had triggers made that as raw items,... they work. After anodizing,.. they did not. Because it was my mistake to not allow for anodizing,... I had to pay to have them re-anodized,.. not my customers.

[Tracy_ptp]

You didnt really answer the question(s).

If we get bodies that are raw, and they have defects which are found after anodizing,.. will PTP cover the cost of new anodizing?

If we get bodies that are anodized, and they have defects ,.. will PTP cover the cost of new anodizing?

I have had triggers made that as raw items,... they work. After anodizing,.. they did not. Because it was my mistake to not allow for anodizing,... I had to pay to have them re-anodized,.. not my customers.

Are you nit-picking??? As I have only let go of only 2 raw bodies...I guess I will unpackage the rest and make sure all fittings fit and then yes you will be on your own. As the dust black will be done soon and if there is no trouble with them then there should be no problem. I will be holding all the rest of raw orders until I know for sure there will be no problems!!

EDIT: Sorry for those waiting for raw...but I have been bashed and beaten enough so I will take all precautions that I need to. I have been trying to make this right and I feel this is the right thing to do.

[Ando]

He's just asking a question Tracy. I sold my spot last week so delete this if you like but what's on most peoples mind (at least the BEO guys, which 90% have body(s) coming to them) is your including notes with the bodies to not assemble them till they get annoed. Well if they don't work after getting annoed, your going to do what for them? Or are you going to tell them "It's the annoer's fault, sorry for your luck".

I for one would assemble and fire the hell out of it to make sure its actually working. I also don't understand what Forest issue is assembling raw parts. It's either going to work or not going to work. If the holes are that off to where people can't get screws to thread then something wasn't measured right and getting it annoed isn't going to magically fix that.

Just looking for a strait answer, they deserved at least that.

[Drix]

I for one would assemble and fire the hell out of it to make sure its actually working. I also don't understand what Forest issue is assembling raw parts. It's either going to work or not going to work. If the holes are that off to where people can't get screws to thread then something wasn't measured right and getting it annoed isn't going to magically fix that.

When Tracy first said not to assemble bodies I was like "Uhh, ok- thats weird". But curiosity got the best of me and I took my front block and decided I wanted to see what it looked like assembled and on a frame. I chose my J+J ceramic barrel figuring that the ceramic would be less of a problem than an aluminum barrel on the new raw body and tried threading it- I got about a turn and a half before it stopped dead. I backed the barrel out and got some of the oil I use when I work on my mill and applied it to the barrel threads, and over a prolonged period of time worked the barrel in- Until the threads were well lubed I felt like every turn and a half I'd be stripping out the threads on the gun.

Now that the barrels been threaded I have no problems at all (likely because the oil is now on the block's threads) but my 4 screws that hold the block to the body are not lubed and are doing the same sticking thing the barrel did. I'd oil them but I know what the problem is now and am ok with it because I know I can get my screws at least a turn and a half in with my fingers before they stop- I know that if I were using a wrench instead of my fingers with no lube I'd absolutely strip the threads right out.

Now, hopefully PTP will check the bodies before shipping for tollerance issues, I think Luke and I skipped past that quality control step that would normally have been in place for a normal gun production and with Luke's gun we've seen an exception and not a norm.

[Forest_ptp]

on a related subject,
I'm building custom paintball Rifles;
one of them will be a double barreled shooter using 2 of my 3 MicroMag bodies.

but I also have a design of my own, pics posted above...note removable thread block.
I just got an estimate back from a one off/small bactch CNC shop...
now does this bit of price info shed some light on just how far $200.00 goes?




so $1179.00 each for just the body, no thread block.
and gotta make enough to keep the doors open so say 30%
so that means a raw, unfinished body with no threads at the barrel end would cost
$1532.70 + shipping each!

so any takers?

Thank you for helping to put this in perspective. This quote is for machining with 3D (production ready) drawings already done and no provision for the amount of work to get to that point.

[Forest_ptp]

When Tracy first said not to assemble bodies I was like "Uhh, ok- thats weird". But curiosity got the best of me and I took my front block and decided I wanted to see what it looked like assembled and on a frame. I chose my J+J ceramic barrel figuring that the ceramic would be less of a problem than an aluminum barrel on the new raw body and tried threading it- I got about a turn and a half before it stopped dead. I backed the barrel out and got some of the oil I use when I work on my mill and applied it to the barrel threads, and over a prolonged period of time worked the barrel in- Until the threads were well lubed I felt like every turn and a half I'd be stripping out the threads on the gun.

Now that the barrels been threaded I have no problems at all (likely because the oil is now on the block's threads) but my 4 screws that hold the block to the body are not lubed and are doing the same sticking thing the barrel did. I'd oil them but I know what the problem is now and am ok with it because I know I can get my screws at least a turn and a half in with my fingers before they stop- I know that if I were using a wrench instead of my fingers with no lube I'd absolutely strip the threads right out.

Now, hopefully PTP will check the bodies before shipping for tollerance issues, I think Luke and I skipped past that quality control step that would normally have been in place for a normal gun production and with Luke's gun we've seen an exception and not a norm.

You pretty much hit the problem with the raw parts on the head. Machined threads have high points. The pre-ano etching process removes some material overall, but tends to knock off more on the high points of the thread - that's always taken into consideration. The anodization process then adds material back of course, but the anodized surface is now more lubricious (which is why the oil worked well) - Loctite will also serve to lubricate the threads during assembly. Since oil and other contaminants can get trapped in blind holes we send our parts to the anodizer clean and dry to make their life easier and help ensure that we don't get any sort of bleed out from the holes during ano. Tracy was waiting on me for the detents and sear pins which is why they didn't all ship last week. She can have everyone's raw bodies shipped out by Tuesday at this point. I have no problem lubing and assembling raw bodies for anyone that wants it done. Please PM Tracy over the weekend if you would like your raw body assembled - it could take an extra day or two to get those out the door.

[TheePsycho]

Just waiting on my raw body to be shipped.

[p8ntbal4me]

Companies like Quick Parts, Proto-CNC, and other are all "fast track" Shops. You submit your files to them and within an hour,.. someone spits a quote back to you.

You can not base a small numbers batch on a quote from a company like that....

,.. ESPECIALLY where they tell you that they are making changes to the radii even though you set them in the diagrams as something else.

Changes like that reflect larger tooling, less tool changes, and that reflects a lower cost to the shop over profit made. They dont have to change as many tools, and they dont have to write as much code over copy and pasting in the same tooling over and over,... it adds up really quick when you arent modifying the G-Code.

Any shop I have done business with in the past has ASKED to make those changes to help them out in exchange for reducing the cost on my end. It saves them money and it saves me money.

[Storminnorman]

So when are expecting to ship the gloss black?

[zondo]

So when are expecting to ship the gloss black?

The same time they ship the Gunmetal Grey.

[Storminnorman]

Any actual dates on shipping Tracy?

[Tracy_ptp]

Dust black due in soon (We will be doing all assemby on all guns) we are also shipping a military order this week so I will be dividing my time between both. Gloss parts have not gone to ano yet as all parts are still being poished. As soon as I get word that polishing is done I will let you know.

[bbotts77]

Dust black due in soon (We will be doing all assemby on all guns) we are also shipping a military order this week so I will be dividing my time between both. Gloss parts have not gone to ano yet as all parts are still being poished. As soon as I get word that polishing is done I will let you know.

Feel free to hang onto mine until the second shipment. I'm in Ireland until the second week of December.

[maniacmechanic]

Dust black due in soon (We will be doing all assemby on all guns) we are also shipping a military order this week so I will be dividing my time between both. Gloss parts have not gone to ano yet as all parts are still being poished. As soon as I get word that polishing is done I will let you know.

Tracy , my shipping address is different than what you have
Should I email it or PM it to you ??