Deleting threads, stupid or not

[Target Practice]

Serious lollin' at people who complain about moderation who weren't around for the Fruitcat Massacre.

Edit: Page 2 Snypa.

[druid]

Well...I sure missed a lot in my absence.....doing my job elsewhere, left me out of the know of what transpired here, so forgive my ignorance - I didn't get to see all of what went down.

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I got the basic gist from this thread, plus over at PBL and as a Mod on 2 other forums, SuperMod on one of them...all I have to say is that this whole thing is just..........petty.

I've really only seen one person's side of it and have to guess about what I see here - but -

It sounds to me like a personal conflict has transpired between a few parties and spilled out into the open forum. I hear that some goading was involved...I hear someone (or few) got their panties in a bunch...If this is the case, then all I have to say is that all of those involved need to grow up.

Mods have a job to do and that's to keep basic order on the Forum. Period. Not necessarily micromanage conversations...per se...but certainly not to ignore spambots in the process. Good Moderators need to wage the greater war...and yet themselves behave in a manner that sets an example for the rest of the membership.

We also don't abuse our permissions/powers out of revenge or with malice, simply because we happen not to like a particular person or post. IF that happened, or were to happen, that Mod should have their permissions stripped and then be banned themselves.

Even though I'm still a dinosaur and using 56K dialup...I can watch precariously natured topics on my forums - and still get to other pages that the bots post; to remove them before minors view them...and be back in a few minutes to observe the monitored thread again.

I don't know if this forum has it but ours does:

A Code of Conduct for Moderators and SuperModerators.

It is a set of guidelines designed solely for US, so that the Admins and other Supers have total control of how we conduct ourselves in our position of "power." One mishap from us and it's one warning (unless it's severe)...the next one is DONE...no more Mod-ship and possible ban.


Now having said all that....

I said before, I really have no idea what really transpired but ultimately, a person was apparently banned for reporting a spambot that linked to porn. I'd personally have thanked the individual in the case that I [as a Mod] missed it. Could it be that the person posted it in a wise-cracking manner? Absolutely. Could it be that it was done to demean the Mod who was directly involved in a conversation? Quite possibly. Does it deserve a ban because of it? Well, I don't know because like I said...I don't have full knowledge of what was going on but a good 'warning' sure sounds like it could have sufficed.....

I don't know...I think a lot of growing up needs to be done on-line in general. People come to forums like this one, just to get away from the Nation-esque atmosphere found everywhere else. It would be a damned shame to lose a forum because of a mass exodus over trivial matters such as these. People need to grow up and others need to get a thicker skin....to whom does this apply? I don't know. Only the reader can decide which applies to them.

[ThePixelGuru]

druid - agreed, for the most part. Thing is, for me (and it seems like more than a few others) this isn't just about that incident. That particular incident was just the thing that got us all talking about how some mods don't obey the rules and policies of the forums, and apply bans unevenly based on the kind of mood they're in and if they like the user or not.

I had a pretty annoying experience with being banned from AO. Certainly wasn't the end of the world, but I did feel it was unfair and poorly handled, and now it's really seeming like I'm not the only one who's had those sorts of thoughts.

[Lohman446]

I recall once when a popular member got banned and a group of pretty common posters complained about the mods, about policies, and whined. Didn't really work out.

Let me clue you in on this. TK supports, financially, this forum at basically no gain to himself. Make this into work, into a problem, and the plug can be easily pulled on it. For those who think that RF has not abused the rules in the past - you have not looked, its just that often his posts are simply edited. If Rogue wants this as his own private sales forum, and wants to be held above the rules, I simply suggest he ponies up the money, buys it, and pays for it himself.

Beemer was appointed the newest mod and directed to enforce the rules, because in the past letting them bend just caused them to bend further and further until it was unacceptable. This whole thing that is happening now - posters whining and threatening and leaving - happened then to.

"But I run a forum and...." - its not this forum. You don't own / pay for / or moderate this forum.

Its a week. I don't question for a moment that it was deserved (and I am willing to bet warnings were issued). Get over it guys, its no big deal and you are really really not helping matters by making it into a problem.

[druid]

druid - agreed, for the most part. Thing is, for me (and it seems like more than a few others) this isn't just about that incident. That particular incident was just the thing that got us all talking about how some mods don't obey the rules and policies of the forums, and apply bans unevenly based on the kind of mood they're in and if they like the user or not.

I had a pretty annoying experience with being banned from AO. Certainly wasn't the end of the world, but I did feel it was unfair and poorly handled, and now it's really seeming like I'm not the only one who's had those sorts of thoughts.

Well then it seems to me that a different avenue should be traveled if the Mods are behaving in an un-Mod-like manner...such as PM/Email an Admins/owners.

If a person feels as if the Moderators are stepping out of the accepted scope of their duties, the screen-shot the pages, save them to photobucket at the 17" screen size and send them to Admins via PM or email.

Proof is in the pudding. Give them evidence that the mods are disorderly and I'm sure the Admins will take care of it....somhow, some way. Even if they don't, you were the better people if you DON'T engage in an epic battle that ultimately you, the non-Mods, will lose.

[druid]

1. I recall once when a popular member got banned and a group of pretty common posters complained about the mods, about policies, and whined. Didn't really work out.
2. Let me clue you in on this. TK supports, financially, this forum at basically no gain to himself. Make this into work, into a problem, and the plug can be easily pulled on it.
3. For those who think that RF has not abused the rules in the past - you have not looked, its just that often his posts are simply edited.
4. If Rogue wants this as his own private sales forum, and wants to be held above the rules, I simply suggest he ponies up the money, buys it, and pays for it himself.
5. Beemer was appointed the newest mod and directed to enforce the rules, because in the past letting them bend just caused them to bend further and further until it was unacceptable.
6. This whole thing that is happening now - posters whining and threatening and leaving - happened then to.
7. "But I run a forum and...." - its not this forum. You don't own / pay for / or moderate this forum.
8. Its a week. I don't question for a moment that it was deserved (and I am willing to bet warnings were issued). Get over it guys, its no big deal and you are really really not helping matters by making it into a problem.

1. Mkay...well popularity contests rarely do [work out]. I don't care if Im the most popular do0d in the building...if I break the rules, then I should expect no less than the discipline DESERVING of the offense.
2. Agreed...which is why I said what I did above.
3. Well, "simply editing" posts without issuing warnings only tells the OP that "...it's OK to do it because we'll just redact without bothering anyone"...which in itself, is wrong. Since I don't have access to your Admin Panel, I can't make a judgement call on who's doing right or wrong and in what instance. Regardless...if a Mod needs to edit a post, then the reason needs to be documented in the warning issued to the poster...whomever it is.
4. ...and yet if Rogue were to stop selling his products to AO members...or making Mag aftermarket products all together...who'd be one of the first persons to start crying about it?
5. What I get out of this is: "Rookie Mod gets the tough detail of ____, now do it!" and that's completely Bull. ALL the Mods need to be doing their jobs and the dead-weight simply removed - and being that he's new, he needs to be hand-held a little bit because new Mods have a tendency to be overzealous in their "jobs." Like it or not, it's true. Now, I have no reason to think Beamer is guilty of this...but I've never given anyone a reason to even THINK about banning me - but it does happen and we all know it.
6. As is always the case and never anything new. Like I said...fanclubs and popularity contests will make trouble for anyone.
7. I really hope your're not directing that at me...because I only offer some helpful tips on how to SUCCESSFULLY run a forum. If you don't like what I have to say, feel free to ignore my post all together. If it's not directed at me, then I guess I'm just misunderstanding what you mean and I'll entertain a better explaination...if you even care to.
8. If it's not that big a deal, then why are you so willing to defend beemer's honor and say "screw" the guys that got banned - with "it's only a week, get over it" rhetoric? You say that {QUOTED FROM ABOVE}"....(and I am willing to bet warnings were issued)"...which means...you don't have a clue that they were issued or not. Therefore, your opinions matter...what? About as much as those defending the ones who were banned...

IDK...is there a Moderator fanclub or something that the banned users aren't privy to (or care to be in?)? Who's running for President?

I think Tom should step in here and lay down a ruling...since it's HIS forum...right? If Mods need a spanking, then so be it. If members need to be banned, then so be it. EVERYONE needs to add a few years of maturity to themselves and everything should just pan out fine....right? Right.

[teufelhunden]

I originally posted this in the "This is stupid" or w/e thread and it was on my clipboard [due to network wishy-washyness last night] so here we go:


My feeling on this is mixed; I was around back whenever it was that CPhil just went nuts and nobody could figure out why. That whole thing is why he's no longer a mod (yet is allowed two accounts now ) and we have the AO Mod Team username and the banlist. I've been on the "omgwtfbbq" side of the issue but now I'm on the other end. Guess one grows up a bit as his college years wane.

First, there's a lot of stuff that happens without anybody seeing it. I'm sure that the majority of the spam on the site is gone before the bulk of the active userbase has any idea of it. If one is to peruse the banlist, he will see a lot of nonames banned for a lot of the same things that these complaints are about.

Second, this whole thing is a far cry from the CPhil situation so I can't get my panties in a bunch about it.

Third, the ever popular fact that this is, in fact, privately owned and operated and is to be run as such. [Meaning you have no first amendment rights here, the mods aren't communists when the edit something, or whatever]. Whatever rules are in place are the rules that are in place and we can't pick and choose them; we can pick and choose coming here. For example, those rules (somewhere) indicate that tripping the swear filter (meaning you get ****) is a violation of said rules and a punishment may be in hand. Also, flaming isn't allowed either, and to be honest, we get a substantial amount of leeway on that front. Taking BE's situation, in the same post he both swore/tripped the filter and changed rabid's name [in a quote] to something of a derogatory nature, and I would bet the latter is what got him banned, as the post stood with an edit for the swear for a while.

I can't comment on the RF situation as I wasn't around when whatever it was went down. I did see somewhere [PBL?] that Beemer said the post was never actually reported [there's a button on every post]... doing that is surprisingly efficient, I've done it with spam and it's been gone pretty fast.

I don't think a lot of users here understand the BS involved with moderating a large and established forum. You have a lot of users, are targeted for spam, have old vs new users who have a different idea of what should happen and what shouldn't, etc. People have track records which come into play when something happens. I'm not commenting on the Rogue thing, but he has at times had his brushes with the mod staff. Someone like him should be extremely cognizant of what goes and doesn't here given how much revenue he generates from the dealer forum, so from a business standpoint he should put some consideration into things. As far as I am aware, Rogue has not had to compensate AO/AGD for any of the gains that have come to him as a result of this community. The point of this paragraph before I got to my rambling was simply to note that it isn't easy and it ends up taking a lot of the enjoyment out of coming to a place like this.

Cut the mods some slack. They're equivalent to referees, and they for sure don't get it right every time, neither do the mods. There have been instances here when bans have been reversed or shortened due to applying hindsight to a situation. Who knows, that might happen here. Or maybe not. But neither of these users were banned for good, they're free to come back if they so choose after their ban. This isn't the end of the world, it's a website, it's no skin off any of our backs if BigEvil doesn't come back or if he does come back. There have been so many people who have come and gone from here, so many times has AO's demise been declared, and AO has allegedly been declining since 1742. I've been around PB forums for a while, I think I first registered on PBN in late 01 under a different name, everybody wants everything to be different and how it used to be. Yet PBR and PBN have been around a long time, MCB/AO/etc. have survived, and the universe is in balance. Members come, members go, and it's not the end of the world. Same with BigEvil and RF (even though I'm sure RF will be back as there's a profit motive for doing so, BE I don't care and don't know).

So get up, get some fresh air, and leave if ya want. :) We'll be fine without you.

[bofh]

Serious lollin' at people who complain about moderation who weren't around for the Fruitcat Massacre.

Edit: Page 2 Snypa.

Indeed.

Ahh. Good times... Good times.

[Babylon 5]

I know I'm reletively new here but when this thing started to blow up over a mod named Beemer "I was like who the heck is Beemer?" I think that is one of the problems, the mod team needs to be made up of active members that post with some regularity so they are a visible part of AO. Also when they post they need some sort of tag that points out they are a mod. The members are what makes AO and the mod team needs to come from the members of AO.

[Altimas]

Tldr.

Attica!

[Lohman446]

Do you think Beemers name was drawn out of a hat? Or do you think TK might have known, met, and trusted Beemer to do the job based on what Beemer has done and been involved with (not just on a forum) in the past?

Hint: Its not the first one.

[punkncat]

Reposted here as "requested"

Is getting banned or attempting to cool now?

So Big E and Rogue got banned here and now a whole bunch of guys spent the better part of yesterday acting like martyrs and trying to get themselves banned too. I see at least one if not more of you did.

What is being disruptive and causing problems really going to do?

If you have a problem, and post it in the appropriate place( with appropriate wording) then I am sure it will get due attention. This "e cool" hitman stuff is just rediculous.

Honestly, do y'all want to upset Tom to the point that he just decides to be rid of AO?

If one of the mods has upset you then stay out of his way. Don't make him play his hand. What does it really mean to you anyway? Can those banned members not take up their own torch at the end of the week, or choose for themselves not to come back?

I mean nothing personal against either of the banned people and consider both of them to be "internet friends". But guys, let them handle thier own business, and let AO just be a paintball board.

[Babylon 5]

Do you think Beemers name was drawn out of a hat? Or do you think TK might have known, met, and trusted Beemer to do the job based on what Beemer has done and been involved with (not just on a forum) in the past?

Hint: Its not the first one.

I think everyone has friends that are good people, but it doesn't mean that you would want them working for you or that they would be good at their job.

I know I do.

[CKY_Alliance]

Doh my bad. I see by four min. Sorry. I was in talk cleaning House when I moved it then saw yours. Want I should do a Redo or do over?

I actually could care less which thread is closed...

Big Evil got banned for telling off Rabid, and then Rogue got banned for telling Beemer to pay less attention to BE and Rabid and more attention to the porn links posted by a spambot in the other forums. A bunch of people have been noticing the oddly-applied ban policies, and now they're all talking about it at once... and usually getting their threads removed, unless enough people who disagree happen to post in the same thread.

Oh, and I'd watch out for triggering the wordfilter. Not like it explicitly says it anywhere in the rules, but I've learned it's ban worthy (depending on what kind of mood the mods are in).

Oh and triggering the curse filter is not in the rules, therefore it should not be a bannable offense. After all you are putting it to it's use. You type a curse word and allow it to censor you..but wait I've been banned for it..

Meanwhile circumventing (like trevor did) is against the rules...therefore a bannable offense..

[joelbird]

This post illustrates the attitude by which everyone is PO'd with you. The guy is standing up for himself, and you are trying to be some sort of Deputy cleaning up the town. I think you are doing a good job as a mod, but step back and let someone else clean it up before things get worse. And BTW deleting stuff seems to have just pushed the knife in deeper to a lot of people.

speaking of cleaning house. whats up with the unreadable posts in the dealer forums that have been there for a while? ( the newest one just deleted) and the one about using an itunes application for some kinda crap. i think these are the problems that are neglected because we are fighting about other crap. my two cents from a lonely observer.