Carry Concealed on College Campuses?

[grEnAlEins]

ok what first world country has the highest rate of violent crime, Ill give you a hint were in it , it also has the highest rate of gun ownership .

Do you have any data to show a direct correlation or any degree of causality? How do you know that the two phenomena are not coincidental nor unrelated? How do you know that high crime has not caused high gun ownership?

[Coralis]

how do you know the statistics you put out arent influenced by other influences like increased police presence more involved community projects like crime watch and neighborhood watch programs.

Anyway cant we just agree to disagree ...

[grEnAlEins]

how do you know the statistics you put out arent influenced by other influences like increased police presence more involved community projects like crime watch and neighborhood watch programs.

Anyway cant we just agree to disagree ...

Replication over time and several studies, large representative sample, uniformity in results among nearly all jurisdictions despite differences in police presence, active neighborhood watch, etc. I cited sound studies that controlled for several variables, and included a sound and mathematically correct analysis method used to process the data. While there is no way to be 100% of causality there is such a thing as a sound correlation of variable. This is what my statements are based on.

We can indeed. As you said neither of us is going to have a change of opinion because of an AO thread.

I would like to add that this was kept civil, and I thank you for doing your part to keep it that way Have yourself a great night.

[Coralis]

Thanks you too.....Besides I had to be nice your probably packing heat

[grEnAlEins]

Besides I had to be nice your probably packing heat

Naw, I am in Boston for grad school and live in Illinois officially. There is no CC for non-cops unless you are a politician or celebrity in either place. I happen to be neither, although I did run for President once

[MoeMag]

... but I just don't think that they should be carried around in public places like its the old west .

I cant hardly respond to this. so this is what I will say...

Its my right to carry a firearm.
Its your right to your opinion.

If either of those facts change...I would rather die a free man, then live as a subject.

[Babylon 5]

All concealed and carry would do is escalate the level of crime, Cause the idea behind concealed and carry is that criminals won't commit a crime if the don't know who has a concealed weapon. But the truth is you would just see violent crime increace cause instead of just being robbed you will now be robbed and probly shot due to the fear of a victum shooting back at them after the stick up.

This is just my 2 cents though from a Criminal justice major.

good night all.

[Ruler_Mark]

All concealed and carry would do is escalate the level of crime, Cause the idea behind concealed and carry is that criminals won't commit a crime if the don't know who has a concealed weapon. But the truth is you would just see violent crime increace cause instead of just being robbed you will now be robbed and probly shot due to the fear of a victum shooting back at them after the stick up.

This is just my 2 cents though from a Criminal justice major.

good night all.

Then how come ever single statistic disagrees with you?

[grEnAlEins]

All concealed and carry would do is escalate the level of crime, Cause the idea behind concealed and carry is that criminals won't commit a crime if the don't know who has a concealed weapon. But the truth is you would just see violent crime increace cause instead of just being robbed you will now be robbed and probly shot due to the fear of a victum shooting back at them after the stick up.

This is just my 2 cents though from a Criminal justice major.

good night all.

Sources? What is your basis for this? Have you done any research on this? Have you read the research of others related to this issue? Have you analyzed these studies' methodologies for validity? I take that the answers are none, none, no, no, and no.

As a graduate student in criminal justice and criminology at one of top universities in the nation and as someone who has actually done extensive and fairly exhaustive analysis of the literature in this area, I must beg to differ with you. If you do any research on the issue you will find that there is literally no credible support for what you have said. Any evidence against CCW has been considered largely invalid due to improper sampling, selection bias (at times intentional), sampling non-representative or population, improper statistical analysis, data manipulation, omission of data and portions of sample, small sample sizes, and the results were not able to be replicated. There is, however, a plethora of credible evidence supporting the assertion that allowing for the right to carry has a negative correlation with all types of crime. This research is based on studies with extremely large samples, representative samples (with regard to population), sound selection of samples, sound statistical analyses of data, transparent methodology (in both research methods and statistical methodology) and extensive replication with similar results.

That said, if you are aware of any valid support for what you have stated, please send it my way. I have not read anything new about the subject in a good three weeks or so, there might be a new development that I may have missed.

EDIT: This "escalation of the level of crime" nonsense was actually a common argument in the late 1980's when Florida passed their right to carry law (Google "Gun-shine State" for some info on this). An escalation of violence did not happen. In fact, crime in all categories was reduced greatly, especially violent crimes and crimes involving firearms. Texas saw similar results, as did the vast majority of jurisdictions that began to allow for the right to carry. Some rural communities that were virtually crime free saw no statistically significant change, but you cannot reduce crime that largely does not exist. CCW holders also tend to be less criminal than the average citizen.
EDIT II: I was trying to avoid a post like this, but could no longer resist the temptation after Babylon 5 played that card.

[BiNumber3]

well, I voted no, but after readin the posts n thinkin bout it, id actually vote yes.

firstly, to get a ccw i've heard u gotta go through some rigorous investigation n whatnot.

second, there has been no reports that i've heard of where someone who was legally concealing a weapon committed a crime with that weapon. tho i havent really bothered googling it so yea... :P

third, i would initially think statistically, more guns on campus, concealed or not, should mean more incidents no? well apparently not if the statistics are correct:P

[Lohman446]

I think we already have enough proof that not allowing concealed carry on school grounds does not stop gun violence don't we?

If you could prove that any gun law could prevent 100% of violent crime than I would be open to listening to the proponents of gun control. The fact of the matter is you cannot even begin to show that. The vast majority of violent crimes do not involve a firearm of any type anyways. Until you can show me how some law is going to keep me safe I will continue to take the safety of myself and my family as a personal responsibility.

[Southpaw]

WARNING STATISTICS AHEAD!!!

CRIME STAT LINK

Burglaries (per capita)

Car Thefts

HMM who is above us?



I am glad that gun control works in the UK

[Southpaw]

RAPE Victims

Robberies Per Capita


Now go and look at this WIKI site

Gun ownership per capita

[Southpaw]

Gun control apparently is good as long as you want your car stolen have your house burgled (SP) and want to be raped.

I know that logic does not work but neither does yours. I would rather BE safe than FEEL safe!

[bryceeden]

Honestly there are alot more people packing than you think in areas where they shouldnt.

No joke, the people who carry legally(even if not allowed in the particular building) would blow your mind. Shoot, I know a doctor who carrys under his scrubs. That doesn't even scratch the surface especially when you take both legal and not into account.



I carry all most all of the time, only exception is when I'm at work and thats just because if I got caught I'd get fired end of story. I like being armed just in case, but I'd never pull my gun if robbed--my cash isn't worth a life, the only time I'd draw is to save a life. I think CCW is great, although I think that the person should have to show a high level of proficiency with the weapon before the permit is issued.

That being said I don't know how to vote here. Could a student with a weapon save lives in a VT type situation? Absolutly. Is a student with a legal CCW a thret to other students? No. Now the problem, say there is a shooting at a school. My team makes entry and sees a person with a gun pointed at someone else, they go down end of story right? But now it turns out that that wasn't the shooter it was someone trying to help. Now the officer who fired who actually did nothing wrong is going to get screwed big time(I still think if its ruled a justified shooting the cops should be immune to civil suits related to it). What do you do? I just don't know the answer. I would carry allowed or not if I went back to school, but I know that if I got shot by SWAT in the heat of the moment that thats just the way it goes and if I lived(which people are much more likely to live then die when shot) there is no way I'd sue and if I didn't make it my family knows I want them not too. The other problem is hero A is shot by hero B who though that hero A was the shooter because he had a gun.

Over all I think I'd have to vote yes, but I'm not 100% sure. There are alot of guns there anyway, we might as well make sure that atleast some of them are held by responsible people.