NASA loses contact with Space Shuttle

[LittMag]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the crew of the Space Shuttle Columbia.

[ShooterJM]

Horrible horrible tradgedy. We had the nasa feed coming into work. We were still holding on to some hope that there were survivors until KSC lowered their flags to half mast.

PStan - You're correct. Some important systems on the shuttle are extremely antiquated. For instance, until recently the flight data recorders were the old reel to reel tapes. Actually the launch sequence used to be on a reel too. Astronauts after the launch would have to remove the reel and switch it to another reel to have the actual flight instructions for the shuttle. If the tape broke you had to fix it with TAPE and do it again. It's getting better with solid state replacing tapes etc.

Dates - This time of year is rough on seals and o rings and such due to pretty significant temperature fluctuations.

I'll go through some of my nasa stuff if you guys want a choice of images. Pretty sure I have quite a few mission patches still.

Just pray for the families.

[shartley]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
Dates - This time of year is rough on seals and o rings and such due to pretty significant temperature fluctuations.

[billmi]

Originally posted by LittleKrems
Ok ummm im probably wrong but... doesnt the space shuttle drop almost all of the fuel/tanks before exiting the atmosphere? And almost none is left when it re-enters the atmosphere? Sorry just people keep saying exploding and i was just wondering

Yes and no. It drops it's biggest tank. On launch there is a large external fuel tank that supplies fuel and oxidizer to the three main engines, and a pair of solid rocket boosters that are needed to acheive orbit. The boosters drop away, and finally the tank when its fuel and oxidizer are expended. The solid fuel is fully consumed by the time the boosters drop (they are recovered in the ocean for re-use) and the tank should be pretty empty, but it just carrys hydrogen and oxygen which are not a hazard toxicity wise.

There are two small engines above the main engines used for braking burns and large velcity changes needed to change or exit from orbit. I don't know what fuels and oxidizes them, but the tanks are internal and do not jettison.

Then there is the OMS - Orbital Maneuvering system. In space there is no air for the rudder and wings to interact with, so in order to orient steer the shuttle there are small engines in various spots. These run on the fuel and the particularly toxic nitrogen oxidizer mentioned in the news (sorry, don't know the compound names offhand.) These are stored in internal, non jetissonable tanks.

Electrical power for the shuttle is supplide by hydrogen fuel cells. These get their hydrogen by catalytically releasing it from hydrazine which is a particularly toxic chemical. This too is stored in internal, non jetissonable tanks. Last year I watched a CNN documentary on the shuttle, and Dawn spotted a guy wearing a JT shirt suiting up in a full environmental protection, closed air suit to fill the hydrazine tanks. It was Richie one of the owners of our local paintball field, who also works on the shuttle maintenance and support crew.

I think it's far, far to early for any serious speculation as to the cause, certainly not for finger pointing. The Space Shuttles are very, very complex systems and have incredibly demanding design criteria. Failure of any of hundreds if not thousands of systems involving control or avionics or power(most of which are redundantly protected) could change the attitude of the vehicle enough that just the airpressure at those velocities would tear it apart, not to mention structural and heat issues mentioned earlier, or even metal fatigue.

While I think the danger of toxicity of debris might be a bit exaggerated, an intact but leaky tank would be a bad thing to hang out around, and it's going to be very important that the debris is left undisturbed by the public so that it can be collected, catalogued and studied to learn from the accident and prevent further accidents in the future.

Am praying for the families of the crew.

As for the shuttle program closing down for a long period as it did after the Challenger program, that isn't an option, due to the support needed for the international space station.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by shartley

100% correct, but boosters sitting on the launch pad aren't.

[shartley]

Originally posted by ShooterJM


100% correct, but boosters sitting on the launch pad aren't.

This is also true, but I would think the temperature of the fuel VS the outside temperature would be so different that again, January or July, the concerns would be the same. As well as this was a problem that happened when it was coming back, not taking off. Thus any seasonal temperature concerns would still be a moot point.

[Automaggin2]

I think the space shuttle entered the atmosphere at the wrong angle. Something like a 3 degree change can cause the space shuttle to burn up into a fireball, which it did. What a great loss.

[dio91]

Being sick for two days now, and waking up to see this on the news, not a great week. My mom told me the last time we lost men in space was Jan 28, 1986, when she was pregnant with me. This whole incident is very dissapointing and everyone's prayers should go out to NASA and its community, including the families. After saying that, I honestly think terroism has nothing to do with this. We all witness what happened on 9/11, and we know that the terroist, Tali Ban, whoever, are out for mass destruction. This case seems to be pure mishap, and hopefully NASA will find out what went wrong.

[Jack & Coke]

R.I.P.

[Will Wood]

I in no way mean disrespect to them and their families and such...

But just a thought.

Before we continue exploring in space and stuff, I think more resources should be put to the problems down here on Earth..

Just my 2 cents.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Will Wood
Before we continue exploring in space and stuff, I think more resources should be put to the problems down here on Earth..

Hmmmm. Here's a short list of what the apollo missions alone contributed (other then the obvious):

CAT Scanners, MRI technology, Cool suits, (worn by race car drivers, nuclear reactor technicians, shipyard workers, people with multiple sclerosis and kids with a congenital disorders), kidney dialysis machines, cordless power tools, athletic shoe design, insulation barrier design, cardiovascular conditioners, vacuum metallizing techniques, water purification, freese dried food (love that ice cream), food service systems, retroreflectors (detects hazardous gases), dry lubricant bonding, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember right now. And that's just the apollo missions!

[Will Wood]

Didn't know that.. I learned something today.

[billmi]

Originally posted by Automaggin2
I think the space shuttle entered the atmosphere at the wrong angle. Something like a 3 degree change can cause the space shuttle to burn up into a fireball, which it did. What a great loss.

If I correctly understand the conversation of the last minute or so of conversation between JSC and the shuttle, they were already well into the atomosphere and going throught their S braking turns. Basically the shuttle, being an unpowered glider in the atmosphere curves left and right to slow down during portions of the return flight. It's kind if like swerving left and right on snow-skis or roller skates to slow down.

Anyhow, even then, they've got enough airspeed that if something threw the vehicle off axis too far, it could be disasterous, just like with any high speed aircraft (the only fatality in an SR-71 happened when it nosed up too hard, and the force of air on the bottom of the nose snapped the fuselage in half). They were still supersonic (possibly hypersonic) at that point. In fact in the normal landing pattern they are still supersonic when they pass over my house which is just some 60 miles or so from KSC - they normally fly past it, and do a final braking turn and line up for approch (in about the time it takes me to get to the TV remote after I fall out of my chair because the whole house just shook from the double sonic boom.)

See you on the field,
-Bill

[billmi]

Re: spin off technologies of the space program that have benefitted mankind.

Not to mention that is just spin-offs, things that were developed for the space program that had other applications down here.

Access to space has given is incredible benifits here on earth. Safety for ships at sea and aircraft in the air, and explorers in remote locations on the ground alone has increased beyond belief thanks to communications and GPS satellites. Business and international relations have changed radically with the ability to communicate - much data going by satellite. Fast communication not only helps economic benefits, but also the ability to defend one's country, and to mobilize recovery efforts in time of emergency or national disaster.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[irbodden]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
irbodden and spongebob grow up or bring your argument to pms. they mentioned on nbc that body parts may possibly been found.

We weren't talking about body parts...