The French are Evil!

[1stdeadeye]

LOL

Originally posted by aaron_mag


There you are wrong. The KGB has widely been misinterpreted to be secret police. They were actually just facilitators for families hoping to move to the eastern section of the USSR. Much like our government encouragement for the settlement of the west. (cheap shot....couldn't resist:))

Oh, okay I get it. Then the Gulags weren't prison camps, but actually job programs for the politically challenged?

LOL!

P.S. Did the KGB kill all the Native "Sibereans" too?

[Collegeboy]

Re: Facts!

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
[BIn the 50's, 60's, and 70's the Soviets controlled all media and inspired fear and distrust of the West. [/B]

This is waht you said. You gave a reference to a quote by Khrushchev in which he said we will crush the west.

I will ask my question again.

How can this quote by Krushchev install fear in the minds of the Soviets of the west? In fact it would be the other way around.

The US installed fear in the minds of the US citizens of the USSR, but throughout my research I have never seen something that the Soviets did to install fear in the minds of the Soviets of the US.

[1stdeadeye]

Re: Re: Facts!

Originally posted by Collegeboy


This is waht you said. You gave a reference to a quote by Khrushchev in which he said we will crush the west.

I will ask my question again.

How can this quote by Krushchev install fear in the minds of the Soviets of the west? In fact it would be the other way around.

The US installed fear in the minds of the US citizens of the USSR, but throughout my research I have never seen something that the Soviets did to install fear in the minds of the Soviets of the US.

I said fear and distrust! The Gulags of Siberia and KGB were really the Super Happy Fun Patrol right? Look at Soviet Propaganda in that era, look at back issues of ITAR-Tass. They demonized the west to make it appear we were evil, unpricipled degenerates. Now leaving you and FalconGuy016 aside, most of us are not!

You stated that it DID NOT HAPPEN! As it only takes 1 example to show it did, you are wrong! Deal with it or I'll sick Facts on you! Bwahahahahahaha!

[Collegeboy]

Re: Re: Re: Facts!

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


I said fear and distrust! The Gulags of Siberia and KGB were really the Super Happy Fun Patrol right? Look at Soviet Propaganda in that era, look at back issues of ITAR-Tass. They demonized the west to make it appear we were evil, unpricipled degenerates. Now leaving you and FalconGuy016 aside, most of us are not!

You stated that it DID NOT HAPPEN! As it only takes 1 example to show it did, you are wrong! Deal with it or I'll sick Facts on you! Bwahahahahahaha!

What does the Gulags and the KGB have to do with instilling fear or distrust in the minds of the Soviets of the west.

[1stdeadeye]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Facts!

Originally posted by Collegeboy


What does the Gulags and the KGB have to do with instilling fear or distrust in the minds of the Soviets of the west.

When you get sent their for any type of Pro-West thinking or protest, it kind ou sours you on them real quick!

[71 LS6]

The USSR tried to convince its people that Westerners were greedy, evil capitalists that would stop at nothing to make a buck for themselves. They promoted this idea through extensive propaganda, even after the death of Stalin. Obviously, the spread of this misconception of the Western world would cause people living in the USSR to fear the US and its evil citizens with their different philosophies. The USSR did this to make its people more opposed to Western ideology, and therefore more supportive of their own government. Yes, this did work both ways; the USSR also did its best to make Westerners fear the USSR. While the USSR remained intact, its citizens were afraid of Westerners, and Westerners were afraid of anything remotely Communist. This fear and hostility is what defined the Cold War. Saying that the USSR had no fear of the US or that the US had no fear of the USSR would essentially be saying that the Cold War never existed.

Originally posted by CB:

You have got to realize that the soviets were not building a communist system; they were in a long stage of slow progression to reach the communist state in the end.

Actually, the revolution in 1917 started because the Bolsheviks were sick of waiting for an opportunity for communism to take hold. Therefore, they started a revolution, overthrew the government, and tried to start a communist system. However, people are greedy, including the Bolsheviks. Therefore, after the Bolsheviks gained power and they tried to set everything up to be ready for communism, they never stepped down out of power. Stalin held it until his death in 1953, constantly strengthening his control of the USSR. Those who held power in the USSR did not wnat true communism, immediately or in the end, because it would require them giving up their power. So, they told the people that they were reaching communism, even though they had actually created a form of dictatorship built on fear. The Soviets who were not in power wanted true communism, becausde it would put them on even ground with those who had held power. Those in power in the USSR said they supported communism, and vowed to spread communism through out the world. However, instead of spreading communism, they set up puppet governments run by dictators, much like the one they set up in North Korea shortly after WWII. So, if in the above statement you were reffering to the soviet leaders in government, you are incorrect because they did not want communism to take hold, for it meant they would lose their power. If in the above statement you refer to to common people in the USSR, you are incorrect because they wanted communism immediately, not eventually.

I started reading this thread backwards, and still havent gotten to anything that relates to the topic of this thread. Would anyone care to return to it?

[Collegeboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Facts!

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


When you get sent their for any type of Pro-West thinking or protest, it kind ou sours you on them real quick!

But that does not bring fear in the minds of the people of the west.

Notice I am not argueing the distrust part, for I agree distrust was there, like in all governments just about.

But the KGB and the Gulags were not to install fear or distrust (notice this example wasn't used for distrust, but overall teh gov. did install distrust) of the west.

You will have to search for more evidence then this.

Same to 71 LS6, you will have to make the distinction between fear and distrust.

I know the US instilled fear in the minds of its citizens of the USSR, but through my research, and through my talks with former Soviets, I have NEVER came across anything remotly proving that the Soviets tried to instill fear in the minds of their people of the US.

[71 LS6]

The soviets had distrust for the US, and we for them. However, the Soviet government instilled fear of itself into its own people.

According to Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language:

fear n. 1. a feeling of anxiety and agitation caused by the presence and nearness of danger, evil, pain etc.; timidity; dread; terror; fright; apprehension 2. respectful dread; awe; reverance 3. a feeling of uneasiness or apprehension; concern (a fear that it will rain) 4. a cause for fear; possibility; chance (there was no fear of difficulty)

distrust n. a lack of trust, of faith, or of confidence; doubt; suspicion

cold war n. hostlility and sharp conflict in diplomacy, economics, etc. between states, without actual warfare

tension n. ... 3. a state of strained relations; uneasiness due to mutual hostility ...

Look at number 3 under the definition for fear. The USSR wanted its people to be concerned about the US, and to feel apprehensive of it. The era in which these feelings were rampant in the US and USSR is known as the Cold War

The Cold War is often defined as a period of tension between the US and the USSR following WWII. Tension is defined as a state of uneasiness, and a feeling of uneasiness is called fear. So yes, there was fear, and yes, there was distrust.

Let us not play word games; they go nowhere. Don't dismiss a discussion based on a technicality. Fear and distrust, I don't care which you prefer, were still there.

[1stdeadeye]

Nice facts!

Originally posted by 71 LS6
The soviets had distrust for the US, and we for them. However, the Soviet government instilled fear of itself into its own people.

According to Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language:

fear n. 1. a feeling of anxiety and agitation caused by the presence and nearness of danger, evil, pain etc.; timidity; dread; terror; fright; apprehension 2. respectful dread; awe; reverance 3. a feeling of uneasiness or apprehension; concern (a fear that it will rain) 4. a cause for fear; possibility; chance (there was no fear of difficulty)

distrust n. a lack of trust, of faith, or of confidence; doubt; suspicion

cold war n. hostlility and sharp conflict in diplomacy, economics, etc. between states, without actual warfare

tension n. ... 3. a state of strained relations; uneasiness due to mutual hostility ...

Look at number 3 under the definition for fear. The USSR wanted its people to be concerned about the US, and to feel apprehensive of it. The era in which these feelings were rampant in the US and USSR is known as the Cold War

The Cold War is often defined as a period of tension between the US and the USSR following WWII. Tension is defined as a state of uneasiness, and a feeling of uneasiness is called fear. So yes, there was fear, and yes, there was distrust.

Let us not play word games; they go nowhere. Don't dismiss a discussion based on a technicality. Fear and distrust, I don't care which you prefer, were still there.

Nice facts. Read the whole thread. Ask CB to define "Siege". He does not agree with Mr. Webster's definitions!

I do like your train of thought here though. It is quite logical!

[1stdeadeye]

Fear on both sides in the general populace?

How about the U-2 incident, when the Soviets paraded Gary Frances Powers before the world and their citizens as evidence of American hostilities toward the USSR. I am sure that gave the average Soviet Peace of Mind?

How about the building of the Berlin Wall where Kruschev in a speech on 8/4/61 talked openly with the Warsaw Pact about building the Berlin Wall and the potential it would lead to Nuclear War. I sure that this instilled great peace of mind as well.

We can go on and on, as I only need one instance to disprove you assertion that it didn't happen. As you have already agreed the distrust part occurred, maybe you can see the fear part did as well?

And maybe monkeys will fly out...aw never mind!

[aaron_mag]

Time to admit you are wrong

According to your copious research the Soviet government did not use fear against their people huh? Well below is a quote from an article I found on the web from a guy who lived in Moscow for 35 years. The article is about the final days of the Soviet Union. His experience with the Soviet government supersedes yours I think....

A year ago parents would never have allowed children to listen to "adult talk." They were scared of the KGB and tried to hide their real opinions about the system from children. Now they tell their kids: "Listen to what I'm saying. You must know what an awful country you were born in."

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/1992/m92/m92zagalsky.html

Let me guess. It is a biased article right? Exactly what political agenda is this guy trying to push?

[Collegeboy]

Re: Time to admit you are wrong

Originally posted by aaron_mag
According to your copious research the Soviet government did not use fear against their people huh? Well below is a quote from an article I found on the web from a guy who lived in Moscow for 35 years. The article is about the final days of the Soviet Union. His experience with the Soviet government supersedes yours I think....



Here is the link to the article:

http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/1992/m92/m92zagalsky.html

Let me guess. It is a biased article right? Exactly what political agenda is this guy trying to push?

That proves that the Soviets used fear of the Soviet government on its own people. That is a rather obvious thing, or it should be. We are discussing did the Soviets instill fear of the West in the minds of the Soviet citizens.

1de likes anyone who agress with him so don't take to much to his words.

Back to good ole webster.

Why would you use a number three definition to try and prove you are right. That shows a rather week argument. When you get down to the line of things, one can say fear and distrust are the same, as a very low level definition by webster's says so. But I sure hope that anyone on this board can come to the understanding that to distrust is not the same as to fear. I distrust the knowledge of many on this board, but I do not fear them. I distrust that my pizza man will get me my pizza in 30 minutes, but I don't fear him. I distrust my roomate, but I do not fear him. Can you all see the difference. It would be totally against the Soviet mindset and beliefs to ever fear anyone other then itself. What good communist (warning used as an title to those who see themselves as striving for communism) would ever fear an inferior system such as capitalism or its government. The fear should reside in them not us. (Warning the presiding was in the minds of Soviets not me.)

[shartley]

Re: Re: Time to admit you are wrong

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Why would you use a number three definition to try and prove you are right. That shows a rather week argument. When you get down to the line of things, one can say fear and distrust are the same, as a very low level definition by webster's says so. But I sure hope that anyone on this board can come to the understanding that to distrust is not the same as to fear. I distrust the knowledge of many on this board, but I do not fear them. I distrust that my pizza man will get me my pizza in 30 minutes, but I don't fear him. I distrust my roomate, but I do not fear him. Can you all see the difference. It would be totally against the Soviet mindset and beliefs to ever fear anyone other then itself. What good communist (warning used as an title to those who see themselves as striving for communism) would ever fear an inferior system such as capitalism or its government. The fear should reside in them not us. (Warning the presiding was in the minds of Soviets not me.)

[Collegeboy]

Re: Re: Re: Time to admit you are wrong

Originally posted by shartley

The concentration camp is entirely different. For a concentration camp are not the Nazi death camps but any type of camp with a concentration of power. It is not a technicality; it is an entire miss use of the word.

To distrust DOES NOT mean to fear.

AS for why I would know what the Soviet mindset was, and what the government was telling their people, and no one else would know it here. Someone might know it, I don't know. But as I look around I don't know of anyone who has as much experience as I do with former soviets, with their culture, with their history, with their main language, with everything that makes them who they are.

Did some people in the USSR fear the US or the west? Yes, that is a no brainier. But did the government of the USSR set out specifically to install fear in the minds of their people of the west. I have yet to find something that would say yes to this.

[aaron_mag]

Re: Re: Time to admit you are wrong

Originally posted by Collegeboy
We are discussing did the Soviets instill fear of the West in the minds of the Soviet citizens.

That is a very fine line. What about it being illegal to trade things between individuals in a free market economy style (as bad a rape according to the article above). This alludes to the ways of the west being bad, evil, etc.