The French are Evil!

[Rebel46_99]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


The point is the US would have never gotten to late 45 if they would have faced the Germans at the percentage the Russians had to. Either too many body bags would have come home for US citizens taste and would pressure the gov. to bring the boys home, or they would have been pushed out to sea. The US would not have been in the war long enough for them o even consider using the bomb.

Where do you get the idea that you can apply today's societal thinking about war to that of the 1940's? My parents grew up in that era. On their accounts and that of their contemporaries that I have spoken with, there was NO over-whelming concern of "too many bodybags, let's get out of the war". Their major concern was one of VICTORY, whatever the price. And don't give me this "I read it here" crap. YOU WEREN'T THERE!!!

YES, I know your father served in WWII and this is meant as no disrespect to him. But, if this is the impression you got from him then it most definitely is not the sole opinion.

DW

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Rebel46_99


Where do you get the idea that you can apply today's societal thinking about war to that of the 1940's? My parents grew up in that era. On their accounts and that of their contemporaries that I have spoken with, there was NO over-whelming concern of "too many bodybags, let's get out of the war". Their major concern was one of VICTORY, whatever the price. And don't give me this "I read it here" crap. YOU WEREN'T THERE!!!

YES, I know your father served in WWII and this is meant as no disrespect to him. But, if this is the impression you got from him then it most definitely is not the sole opinion.

DW

Not my father, both my grandparents did. My father was in Vietnam, but he was two when they had to evacuate Paris before Germany took it over.

So you are banking on the impession of your parents. So two people can give you an example of the majority of the feeling of the time.

People did not want to spend American boys lives in foreign wars. And this is the truth as any legislation can show you, any opinion poll from the time. Ah the beuaty of books. Maybe you need to pick one up.

[shartley]

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

Ah the beuaty of books. Maybe you need to pick one up.

CB if books and college teach anything it is that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous and that the wise man admits that he knows nothing. You seem to pride yourself on the fact that you have read some books. Well guess what...so have the rest of us. The amazing thing about these books is that many of them will have different and competing theories on history. Luckily I have never seen an author dumb enough to devote his time and energy to writing a book about these hypothetical questions if Germany had to only face one front or the other what would the world have been like. Well maybe science fiction...

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


CB if books and college teach anything it is that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous and that the wise man admits that he knows nothing. You seem to pride yourself on the fact that you have read some books. Well guess what...so have the rest of us. The amazing thing about these books is that many of them will have different and competing theories on history. Luckily I have never seen an author dumb enough to devote his time and energy to writing a book about these hypothetical questions if Germany had to only face one front or the other what would the world have been like. Well maybe science fiction...

No I do not pride myself on the fact that I have read some books. That was in response to him saying I can not know what was felt at that time from books but his parents can give an accurate idea of what can be felt during that time. That is false. A book is written about more then one persons feelings, and through books on this subject we can learn about polls and presidents decisions. Read the book The Reluctant belligerent and you will see just what I am talking about, when I say that American will not support mass amounts of body bags coming home. If you don't like to read a book read reports of what happened and such.

And no Shartley, if you prove me wrong I will say I am wrong. The fact is that except for the time I said I was wrong, no one has proved me wrong.

Yet you say this about me without saying the same thing about people who I argue with. I wonder why.

[1stdeadeye]

What?

Originally posted by Collegeboy
How many atomic bombs did we have in late 45?

More then the enemy. We had at least 2 and the Germans/Japanese didn't know how many more we had did they? Nukes are a great hand to bluff with!

The point is the US would have never gotten to late 45 if they would have faced the Germans at the percentage the Russians had to. Either too many body bags would have come home for US citizens taste and would pressure the gov. to bring the boys home, or they would have been pushed out to sea. The US would not have been in the war long enough for them o even consider using the bomb.

Who says we would have invaded before we had the A-Bomb. We began bombing Germany well before D-Day. We had air superiority by D-Day. D-Day could have been delayed while the US stood off and bombed the hell out of Germany from Fortress UK, unless you think that the mighty Germans could have successfully crossed the channel and invaded. You keep looking at this as if everything stays the same but what you changed. If you change one dynamic, then you change everything. Strategies change etc... Can't you grasp that?

As for what Russia got in the Lend Lease, I gave you the list, on it listed nuclear materials.

No you did not. That website listed the Tanks, Planes, etc.. that the US gave under lend lease starting in MARCH of 1941! There is nothing about uranium! Did you look at the website I posted? The Soviets mined their own fissable materials using over 20,000 slvae laborers!

It is an official government document stating that Moscow lies in a siege declaring a system of martial law in Moscow. What does the Martial law have to do with it being a siege, I have no idea where you are going with that, but I can probably be certain that Leningrad and Stalingrad had the same warnings.

I gave you Webster's definition of siege. Moscow was never under siege! You could have an official government document in 1942 that said the Soviet Army crushed the Germans. Just cause it is a document doesn't make it correct, unless you are calling Mr. Webster a liar!

This whole thing got me wondering, what do you all think ended the Cold War (not the fall of the USSR, but what cause its fall)


Pretty simple, we bankrupted the USSR. Their economy could not withstand the burden that the cold war placed upon it. Ours could!

[Collegeboy]

I read the site, they mined materials, and the US gave them materials.

So how much of Europe would we allow Germany to gobble up before we did anything. Will we allow them to spread out all over to where we can not attack, or will we stop them before they get anywhere. For if you wait until mid 1945, all of Europe beside Russia will be under German control.

AS for that site, did you read the first part of it. It says in big bold letters, ATOMIC MATERIALS.

Yes Moscow was.

I thought you would place the fall on the USSR on the US's shoulders.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

And no Shartley, if you prove me wrong I will say I am wrong. The fact is that except for the time I said I was wrong, no one has proved me wrong.

Yet you say this about me without saying the same thing about people who I argue with. I wonder why.

[Rebel46_99]

Originally posted by Collegeboy




So you are banking on the impession of your parents. So two people can give you an example of the majority of the feeling of the time.

People did not want to spend American boys lives in foreign wars. And this is the truth as any legislation can show you, any opinion poll from the time. Ah the beuaty of books. Maybe you need to pick one up.

Sam... I know you're right. Once again we are subjected to the "I'm right, You're wrong" whining of CB.

Again, he didn't read the ENTIRE post. I said, "AND contemporaries". And again, he reverts to the "I read it here" type of BS.

FOL hit it on the head....

DW

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley

Whenever the vast majority agree with you, you are normally wrong. I forgot who said that.

When you parents example doesn't fit with country wide polls and popular opinion at the time, I have to question it. Sorry, but that is only true.

[Rebel46_99]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


Whenever the vast majority agree with you, you are normally wrong. I forgot who said that.

When you parents example doesn't fit with country wide polls and popular opinion at the time, I have to question it. Sorry, but that is only true.

So basically what you're doing is calling my parents liars? Is that it, Moron? All YOU can do is read what someone else "thought" the opinion of the country was and spout it as gospel. YOU DID NOT EXPERIENCE IT FIRST HAND!!!


DW

I edited out a further comment too avoid being banned!!!

[m-98]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

And no Shartley, if you prove me wrong I will say I am wrong. The fact is that except for the time I said I was wrong, no one has proved me wrong.

No, you can't be proven wrong because you won't accept the facts that are staring you in the face because you are living in denial.

[m-98]

Re: What?

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Pretty simple, we bankrupted the USSR. Their economy could not withstand the burden that the cold war placed upon it. Ours could! [/B]

Yay for capatalism!

But, seriously WWIII was what killed the USSR. We nuked the crap out of them, right CB.

[m-98]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I read the site, they mined materials, and the US gave them materials.

So how much of Europe would we allow Germany to gobble up before we did anything. Will we allow them to spread out all over to where we can not attack, or will we stop them before they get anywhere. For if you wait until mid 1945, all of Europe beside Russia will be under German control.

AS for that site, did you read the first part of it. It says in big bold letters, ATOMIC MATERIALS.

Yes Moscow was.

I thought you would place the fall on the USSR on the US's shoulders.

If I recall correctly, Britain was and still is part of Europe and was never invade.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Rebel46_99


So basically what you're doing is calling my parents liars? Is that it, Moron? All YOU can do is read what someone else "thought" the opinion of the country was and spout it as gospel. YOU DID NOT EXPERIENCE IT FIRST HAND!!!


DW

I edited out a further comment too avoid being banned!!!