Matrix discussion ***WITH SPOILERS***

[impostal22]

Originally posted by logamus
that ending blew. just like lotr. it really chapped me. anyway, on with the movie...why would a computer intentionally program in things that would eventually challenge the original program? why have the oracle, neo, keymaker, etc.?

realize it is a segway (whoa, poor spelling) into the last movie. they gotta leave a cliffhanger, end it at an unexpected spot. so don't say it blew if they intended to piss people off by doing what they did. you should say, instead, "it was effective."

and, about programming in things to challenge it...going w/ the theory neo was in fact programmed in and not just a rebellious human...then the architect would do that to debug the program, because the 'perfect' matrix failed originally. he uses neo to bring the matrix closer and closer to perfection (or farther, depending how you look at it), seeing what goes wrong through neo's actions. the oracle, the keymaker, etc are all guides...they're keeping the debugger in line.

remember guys, the theme of this movie is finding your purpose and understanding. the oracle does what? she tells neo he is the one, tells him what he has to do. she GIVES him purpose. she aids him in understanding his choices. etc.



and btw, somehow i really didn't catch on that an agent uploaded to that guy's head. was it subtle? cuz i COMPLETELY missed it. it makes more sense why that guy wanted to kill neo...ho hum, i'm a retard.

[impostal22]

Originally posted by magking1971
Here is what I came up with on the spoon thing,
Remember the girl with the spoon in the first movie?
she was woken up and came to zion and sent neo a hand-made spoon to say "hi I'm not in the matrix anymore, remember me?"

ya i agree with mag here. it wasn't the spoon that was in the matrix. it was a symbol. c'mon guys

[Big_M]

anywho, yes, the whole upload thing, what happened was two guys trying to leave the matrix, one got out, the other was taken by smith and then uploaded into the real world, so back to the smith new relationship, instead of 2nd matrixes and what not, anyone think it was that which led to neo's new found powers?

[impostal22]

big_m - why would he try to kill neo and then empower him to fight the machines? if he really wanted to use neo against the machines then he wouldn't make attempts on his life. what's your theory?

[theimpossiblityofreason]

Even though they make it seem like its going to be a matrix within an matrix, I hope that it isnt. that idea has already been done before in the movie "the thirteenth floor". The whole plot of that movie was they created a "matrix" of their own and could voluntarily enter it, assume the identity of another being, and then leave when wanted. In the end, the people that created their own "matrix", were in one themeselves, and it pans out with a futuristic world....
To me, if they do the matrix within a matrix, its gonna be to rediculous. Also, just like agent smith was able to travel into the real world, so was teh main character of "the thirteenth floor" able to get out of his program and into the real world.
I think that Neo's powers outside of the matrix have something to do with him choosing the door that supossedly ends all of humanity. No over version of the one has chosen that door, they all went with the recreation of Zion.
Also, during the wholse scene with the Architect, he made references that neo was not like the other versions of the one. that he made decisions quicker, and that he was plagued by mans most powerful and detrimental emotion, HOPE.
I believe his power outside exists becasue of this hope. it lead him to the door no other "one" took, and it allowed for him to bring trinity back to life. He has defied the matrix, which will now allow for a new history to be written bringing the idea of free will versus the destiny that has occured 5 times already.... thats enough of my opinion for now

[theimpossiblityofreason]

one more thing.


I am curious as to how Agent Smith is aware of the 5 previous matricies. Early in the movie when Neo is given the earpeace and then flies away from the fight, Agent smith shows up and says "its happening just like before".

That line leads me to believe he is aware of the other previous matricies, I am extremely curious to see how this will be explicated upon.

[devildog]

on the smith uploading to the real world and what happened to him thing, watch the end of the movie again, after they abandoned ship and got onto the new one, the guy says that the ambush was wiped out pretty much, it was a "slaughter", and he says they went in to look for survivers, and found one. then when neo was on the rack in his coma, they panned up and you could see the guy that smith uploaded into, the villan basically. so we'll see where that goes.

as far as the different ending possibilities, like i said, if you watch the trailer after the credits for part 3, you could see that the matrix is actually getting destroyed, and neo is trying to save humanity, and the ultimate bad guy is indeed, agent smith. that is who he faces at the end of the trailer.

oh yeah, who ever said something about the agents not knowing about the real world, that cant be, because the agents are there to supervise and police the matrix, and they have a direct correlation to the machines in the real world (or whatever is in charge of the machines). thats how the agents new to warp into the real world, and that neo and the crew are bad to the matrix, otherwise they would never have been bothered in the first place.

i am playing the game right now, about half way through it, it goes into the movie pretty good, and goes along with it. the scene where the machines are burying through the ground and there is a bazillion of them is in the game, exact scene. its pretty cool.

[devildog]

Originally posted by theimpossiblityofreason
[B]
Agent smith shows up and says "its happening just like before".
/B]

i believe he says, "its hapening just as planed" not like its happening before.

[impostal22]

devildog, he's right you're wrong lol. remember when agent smith #1 says "good, it's happening exactly as before." then the camera pans to agent smith #2 and that one says "well, not exactly" and grins like a bastard?

about the game, i'm hoping to get it! seems well worth buying, is it?

[Bubonic Plauge]

Logamus,
The Keymaker, Oracle, etc all kept saying the same thing: "Everything happens for a reason."

They were additional control programs used to keep that 1% from rejecting the matrix. Thats my take anyway

[devildog]

guess i was wrong

the game is pretty cool, its pretty much a lara croft game, platform fighter, but the fighting is top notch, and the bullet time is cool. cool tricks get pulled off. the story branches off real good so far, its good just to watch just for the story, it goes along with the movie. you play as niobe, which is the black chick that goes back to save neo towards the end. you get to see her and the hot french chick from the movie make out its pretty cool, so far her, the keymaker, and the french dude guarding the keymaker have been met, im stuck in the huge mansion where the keymaker was right now, fighting some new guy called vlad, he is a vampire, im not sure who he is and why i am fighting him, but whatever. he moves like an agent, so the fight is tough, then again, im playing the game on the hardest difficulty (like always). its fun, kind of redundant, but fun.

[Sooky]

Just got back from it. It's been a while since I've been seriously impressed by a movie.

But I would have to say that I think Plague hit the nail on the head with a matrix within a matrix. Remember what Neo said at the end when they were fleeing: "somethings different... it doesn't feel like before." Still in the matrix!

[Quickling]

Ok what if Smith's whole goal is to download himself OUT of the matrix???

Remember in the Firsst movie he told Morpheous that he wanted out of the matrix. He couldn't stand it anymore? Well what if that is his whole goal, is to assimilate those that can leave the matrix, in affect removing himself from the place that he hates.

On that note, what if Neo's purpose is to stop the rouge program from leaving?

[darklord]

Originally posted by Quickling
Ok what if Smith's whole goal is to download himself OUT of the matrix???

Remember in the Firsst movie he told Morpheous that he wanted out of the matrix. He couldn't stand it anymore? Well what if that is his whole goal, is to assimilate those that can leave the matrix, in affect removing himself from the place that he hates.

On that note, what if Neo's purpose is to stop the rouge program from leaving?

that has been established as Smith's goal. The question is, does he retain his virus powers outside of the Matrix? Also, what does he plan on doing when he gets out of it? In the 1st one he said that once he gets access to Zion, there'll be no need for him anymore, implying that Zion will be destroyed. But with the machines already on this task, what is he going to do?

As for the "3rd matrix", outside of the proposed 2nd one, I thought of this, and seems like a crappy ending to me, a la the Men in Black movies (another cut and dry ending where it just keeps panning out into different worlds, giving the general message that we're just 'grains of sand in a huge desert'/we're not alone). I like the idea of choice being the ultimate salvation for humanity, whoever said that... it'd be like an unaccounted for element of the whole program that is the Matrix, causing unexpected results.

Anyway, I was just thinking, why would the machines restart the Matrix? By doing so, technically wouldn't every human still plugged into it die? Or does this go more along the lines of the "rebooting" theory, where the machines are just trying to get rid of unwanted elements like the resistance in Zion?

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by darklord
that has been established as Smith's goal. ... Also, what does he plan on doing when he gets out of it? In the 1st one he said that once he gets access to Zion, there'll be no need for him anymore, implying that Zion will be destroyed. But with the machines already on this task, what is he going to do?

REMEMBER, he infected that guy (I believe his name was Bane.) At the very end of the movie, it says someone sabotaged Zion and set off an EMP which disabled 5 ships. This allowed the machines to go into Zion without very much resistance. About the "no need for him anymore" part ... maybe he intended to die as a result of setting off the EMP bomb and figures the machines would find him?

Originally posted by theimpossiblityofreason
I think that Neo's powers outside of the matrix have something to do with him choosing the door that supossedly ends all of humanity. No over version of the one has chosen that door, they all went with the recreation of Zion.
Also, during the wholse scene with the Architect, he made references that neo was not like the other versions of the one. that he made decisions quicker, and that he was plagued by mans most powerful and detrimental emotion, HOPE.

Thank god someone finally pointed that out.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense it's sort of early...