Matrix discussion ***WITH SPOILERS***

[GT]

As the Architect reveals, Neo is not the first One, but rather the sixth. Why the sixth? The answer is that Neo's five previous incarnations represent the Five Books of Moses that make up the Old Testament.

this guy is reaching,

evel simulated world of the Matrix, but also the second-level simulation of Zion.

2nd matrix

[Will Wood]

Originally posted by devildog


maybe smiths intention never was to kill neo

.. Wrong. That is his only intention. Hell, he could destroy all of Zion if he wanted. But all he wants is the satisfaction of killing Neo by himself.

[devildog]

wow, whoever have that link, that was cool. the guy makes alot of sense, although i think he makes to many religion and philosophy references.

he says that the machines are the one who sent "the one" into the real world so the machines could learn how humans think, and make the humans make the choice to destroy humanity.

he says that the enslaved humans arent an energy source, but prisoners, and the machines want to destroy them, but cant, because the humans created them. the humans have to make the choice to destroy themselves, which is what this final neo does. thats why it took 6 tries to get it right.

makes alot of sense, if you think about it, thats saying that neo is the bad guy in this movie, which i think is damn awesome.

this whole time we are assuming that there is some human power that made and is running the matrix, but that is wrong, its the machines that made the matrix, we have to remember that.

also, if you play the game, it says that neo is now stuck in a world inbetween the matrix world, and the real world, and niobe and trinity will be the ones to get him out, niobe will have to make a choice of life of death just like neo did somewhere in the next movie.

[devildog]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHa, i just read the bottom of that link, and he is soooo right,

how many people would it piss off if in the end, neo just woke up from a dream, and all three movies meant nothing, oh man, i think id kill myself. lol

[Quickling]

why did he cut himself anyway?

What if Smith, being a program, and now a virus, did not fully understand the human mind and did not have full control over Bane? Maybe bane's mind and smith's were fighting and the cut resulted from that?

Actually I think thats kinda weak since in the matrix there is np trace of personal identity once ifected by Smith, and I now think that perhaps the intend was to share blood, further increasing Smiths and Neos link...

but why...

[Vendetta]

I thought that Smith cut himself because he wanted to see what pain felt like?

That link was incredible.

Favorite line:

The fact that The One comes from the machine world is a brilliant way to write around the fact that Keanu Reeves can't act.

Brilliant!

[impostal22]

before i start replying to everyone's posts, here are some of my questions/thoughts. if the multiple versions of a matrix theory is true, then what happens to the people when zion is destroyed and then recreated? do all of those within the matrix die, or what? i guess noone can answer this question, but it's good food for thought.

also, did anyone else notice that the council did not seem too concerned about the defense of zion? remember that the One chooses who rebuilds zion after each version of the matrix restarts? in other words, as one version of the matrix ends, zion is destroyed by the machines, but the One picks 23 people to rebuild it (those 23 are the original council i believe). and the current council is fully unaware of the inevitability of the destruction of zion (i guess the previous council members passed down the knowledge). so ya, i dunno what that means, but i think the council was aware of the fate of zion.

also, why would the architect let zion be rebuilt every time if it is just a source of resistance? i think, as does my friend, that the zion is used as a gathering place for that small percentage of people whose minds reject the matrix. rememebr the architect said that every time there is a small number who inevitably reject the matrix? well now they have somewhere to go, a place where the machines will be able to keep track of the freed minds.

i think i had more, but here are my responses:

Originally posted by devildog
he says that the machines are the one who sent "the one" into the real world so the machines could learn how humans think, and make the humans make the choice to destroy humanity.

i said that earlier, but it would be bad if that was true. cuz that is how Dark City's plot went. a bunch of aliens created this fake world and kept changing it to learn what makes humans human.

Originally posted by devildog
he says that the enslaved humans arent an energy source, but prisoners, and the machines want to destroy them, but cant, because the humans created them. the humans have to make the choice to destroy themselves, which is what this final neo does. thats why it took 6 tries to get it right.

remember the conversation between the zion council member and neo, in the engineering room? they talk about control and what it really is. neo says that we have ultimate control over the machines because we can turn them off. the councilor responds by saying that by turning the machines off, the humans would die because the machines produce heat and air for the humans. ergo, humans and machines depend upon eachother for survival; they give eachother purpose. neither have control, because they both need eachother. and just like those machines, the big bad evil machines need humans for energy, and we need machines for purpose (sort of- if the machines weren't there, what would be our purpose if not fighting the machineS? to exist).

Originally posted by devildog

this whole time we are assuming that there is some human power that made and is running the matrix, but that is wrong, its the machines that made the matrix, we have to remember that.

recall the first matrix movie, back to morpheus's initiation of neo. he says that one man helped design the matrix, give the machines insight (aka, the architect). if i'm wrong on this, please someone correct me (i'm not 100% sure about this).

Originally posted by gtrsi

The french guy and his wife, I think they are very key players, How? I have no clue

i agree with this. recall he said "i have survived all of your predecessors and i will survive you" to neo? this shows that he is fully aware of the several remakings of the matrix, so i guess he's just a program, like the keymaker and like the oracle. i think he is there as a virtual representation of the machine's leader.

[TylerDurden]

In the first movie morpheus did say that a man was born inside the matrix and freed the first humans, but according to morpheus he died, and "the one" is that man re-incarnated.<<--long sentence

If Neo could choose those x amount of people to be the councilers of the new Zion, then could he not have chosen Trinity to be one thus saving her from being killed?

[edweird]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why did he cut himself anyway?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well if you asked me, I think that he is trying to figure out how to "assismiliate" others in his new body... but finding it odd to adjust to his new world. I invision him going around zion proding a couple people in the sterium before catching on that -things arnt the same here-

So logicly he must figure that spreading his essence (ie blood) on an attacked target would have the same affect here as in the matrix. Silly possessed fool, oh how the mighty have fallen

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why humans and not cows?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cause the relationship between creator and creation is a sacred thing... also in a more realistic situation the machines see the humans as a perfect quality assurance test bed to counter future threats to the happy go lucky power station they have

[Dayspring]

Just remember- Persephone says that the French Guy was like Neo when they first came to the Matrix. Might mean he was once "The One."

[taylor492]

sux

i think there is only one word to describe this movie
D.I.S.A.P.O.I.N.T.M.E.N.T (sp?)
this was made even worse by the fact that the first one was friggin awesome. By far the best movie that has come out in a long time is X men 2, and this comes from someone who never picked up a comic in his life

[Vendetta]

i think there is only one word to describe this movie

I don't think we can judge this movie yet because it was all set up for the finale. I think the first was so awesome because it took us all by surprise. Also, the W. boys were not sure they would be able to make the last two movies, so they had to give the Matrix an ending. I'm confident the last movie will blow us away.

PS. I hope when all three movies come out on DVD. There is some type of Director's Cut that will make the transition between #1 and 2 smoother.

[digitard]

Its just a MATRIX within a MATRIX type thing ...

What better way to control the human mind than to make it believe it has a way to be free ... when your just giving it layers (think 13th floor movie)

Below are my "reasons" to believe this ... oh, and it doesn't matter if they have "a bond" if it was "the real world" the rules of the real world would still apply ... wether he's "the one" or not.

1) Zion has been destroyed 6 times according to the "Architect" ... yet nobody in Zion seems to recollect this, or reference this.

2) They keep referring to "his predecessors"... as in plural, but Neo was told originally that he's basically the reincarnation of "the one" who could warp the matrix and said he'd return.

3) The "Oracle" stated that she wasn't "human" therefore a program inside the matrix. She's just "doing her job" ... and the facts point to that her job is to make him believe that "he is the one" and give him the info he requests.

4) The end: No matter how you look at it, even if he is "The one" real world rules would apply if he wasn't in the matrix ... The fact he could "Sense" them and then the EMP he originated pretty much shows that the point is "HE" has grown aware of his surroundings and that he's growing outside the matrix/matrix walls and will soon be aware of each.

The next movie takes place mainly in the "real world" (60% according to Fishburn)... So we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

There are LOTS of other small things, but I think those sum up the main points.

Agree/Disagree?

Sincerely,
Dave

[edweird]

Think about this movie as a Y2k version of "Empire strikes back". When empire came out in the early eighties alot of whining and complaining was heard cause it ended on a downer and alot of people just did not get the concept of an Epic trilogy of movies.

[impostal22]

Originally posted by digitard
Its just a MATRIX within a MATRIX type thing ...

What better way to control the human mind than to make it believe it has a way to be free ... when your just giving it layers (think 13th floor movie)

Below are my "reasons" to believe this ... oh, and it doesn't matter if they have "a bond" if it was "the real world" the rules of the real world would still apply ... wether he's "the one" or not.

1) Zion has been destroyed 6 times according to the "Architect" ... yet nobody in Zion seems to recollect this, or reference this.

2) They keep referring to "his predecessors"... as in plural, but Neo was told originally that he's basically the reincarnation of "the one" who could warp the matrix and said he'd return.

3) The "Oracle" stated that she wasn't "human" therefore a program inside the matrix. She's just "doing her job" ... and the facts point to that her job is to make him believe that "he is the one" and give him the info he requests.

4) The end: No matter how you look at it, even if he is "The one" real world rules would apply if he wasn't in the matrix ... The fact he could "Sense" them and then the EMP he originated pretty much shows that the point is "HE" has grown aware of his surroundings and that he's growing outside the matrix/matrix walls and will soon be aware of each.

The next movie takes place mainly in the "real world" (60% according to Fishburn)... So we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

There are LOTS of other small things, but I think those sum up the main points.

Agree/Disagree?

Sincerely,
Dave

all of this was covered in previous posts. literally, all of it lol. you should read them...