wow Affirmative Action Upheld In Supreme Court

[FactsOfLife]

Re: my thought on AA

Originally posted by Jack_Dubious
Stick it to the Man!

Thats payback for 400 years of oppression!

j/k


JDub

Why the hell aren't you playing Planetside with me!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Not going to get into this debate but I fall closer to CB's thinking on this one. 1de don't even say that all schools are funded equally. Of course we all might not know about the utopia of New Jersey which has always been a shining light of equality and forward thinking (since we don't live there) but you don't have to search very hard to find differences in funding for schools in the nation. Wait didn't I say I wasn't going to debate it? God I can't stop my own nature....

Utopia my *Butt*!

You don't want to know about New Jersey! My property taxes are horrid. We are 1st in the nation in property taxes. Property taxes fund our schools. The State funds the abbott districts. Camden spends more per pupil then my suburban school district does. Hmmm? Equal, no! In NJ, the poor school districts get more! Gotta love those liberal courts who in their wisdom decided that all of NJ should fund the poor districts while the rest of us get SCREWED royally by having to also support our local schools. I get it worse then that. On top of supporting the ADs, and supporting the local schools with my property taxes, I also pay tuition to send my children to private school/pre-school! NJ fair, no. That is why a large number of middle class districts are sueing to reverse Abbott, saying equal may be fair, but more is not!

[aaron_mag]

To totally get off topic I worry when the middle and upper middle class start fleeing public schools. The voucher system scares me because I am afraid that a flight to from the public school system means that many kids will be left behind.

In the end, however, I'm a hypocrite because one of the reasons I love my area is it has a really good grade school and that is important to me. So in the end I'm as much of an elitist snob as anyone....

Back to the affirmative action debate do you not think the inclusion of Conda Lisa Rice and Powell in the current administration was not partially in the interest of having a diverse cabinet? Powell and Rice are well qualified but I'm sure there are tons of equally qualified candidates for the job. Of course the administration made up their choices with diversity in mind (an entirely wise move). The concept of diversity as an important factor in the decision making process (among equally qualified individuals) was the basis of the supreme court ruling. Whats wrong with that ruling? It follows common sense...

EDIT:
I would also submit that you do not get "SCREWED" by supporting your local schools. Having good local schools adds to the value of your property. Had a friend recently complain that he would have to pay as much property taxes for the condo he is thinking about getting as home owners pay (percentage wise). Had to educate him on the fact that there is no study that has proven that condo owners poop less than us regular homeowners and thus have less need of the local sewer system/waste treatment facilities as the rest of us. Sorry but value of our homes is created by the services provided by our local tax dollars. I'll get off my soap box now.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife



Spoken like a true liberal.

I guess individual rights don't mean much in your world huh.

BTW, aren't you supposed to be leaving for the promised commieland?

Current events and history must not be your strong point.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Utopia my *Butt*!

You don't want to know about New Jersey! My property taxes are horrid. We are 1st in the nation in property taxes. Property taxes fund our schools. The State funds the abbott districts. Camden spends more per pupil then my suburban school district does. Hmmm? Equal, no! In NJ, the poor school districts get more! Gotta love those liberal courts who in their wisdom decided that all of NJ should fund the poor districts while the rest of us get SCREWED royally by having to also support our local schools. I get it worse then that. On top of supporting the ADs, and supporting the local schools with my property taxes, I also pay tuition to send my children to private school/pre-school! NJ fair, no. That is why a large number of middle class districts are sueing to reverse Abbott, saying equal may be fair, but more is not!

You don't expect the poor areas to afford to fund education when they can barely fund their own food.

[Fred]

I'm gonna assume this is in regards to U of Michigan...

Wow! Looks like if I had graduated from high school this year, I might have gotten in, considering I only had a 3.5 gpa, and 29 ACT, and despite the fact that I qualify as middle class, live 15 miles east of Ann Arbor, and am of European origins...

my little bro and I were both "Deferred" when we applied there, its the nice way of them saying REJECTED! since we're apparently not special enough for that school.

Good riddance!

---Fred

[Collegeboy]

The conservatives like to make the UM example as some horrible thing where if you are black you get in, and if you are white you do not.

I have heard that it takes at least a 150 on the point system they use to even be considered to get in. When if you are a minority you only get like a 20 point weight to your score.

Fred, what did you get on your SAT. When I applied to the U of M (just did it to piss my father off, he went to OU hehe) they didn't take the ACT, only the SAT. What extra curricular activities where you apart of in school, what organization where you a member of, what honors did you get, etc.......

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
To totally get off topic I worry when the middle and upper middle class start fleeing public schools. The voucher system scares me because I am afraid that a flight to from the public school system means that many kids will be left behind.

What? Think about that. Vouchers would allow the kids that are being left behind to move to the better schools. People that can afford to will send their children to private schools regardless.

In the end, however, I'm a hypocrite because one of the reasons I love my area is it has a really good grade school and that is important to me. So in the end I'm as much of an elitist snob as anyone....

Snob!

Back to the affirmative action debate do you not think the inclusion of Conda Lisa Rice and Powell in the current administration was not partially in the interest of having a diverse cabinet? Powell and Rice are well qualified but I'm sure there are tons of equally qualified candidates for the job. Of course the administration made up their choices with diversity in mind (an entirely wise move). The concept of diversity as an important factor in the decision making process (among equally qualified individuals) was the basis of the supreme court ruling. Whats wrong with that ruling? It follows common sense...

Powell, yes. Rice, no! Rice has been with Bush forever! She has been with him since his Father's term. She is one of his confidants. I truly believe that she is a person there strictly on her merits. The fact that she is a minority is a bonus.

EDIT:
I would also admit that you do not get "SCREWED" by supporting your local schools. Having good local schools adds to the value of your property. Had a friend recently complain that he would have to pay as much property taxes for the condo he is thinking about getting as home owners pay (percentage wise). Had to educate him on the fact that there is no study that has proven that condo owners poop less than us regular homeowners and thus have less need of the local sewer system/waste treatment facilities as the rest of us. Sorry but value of our homes is created by the services provided by our local tax dollars. I'll get off my soap box now.

My local school district is just fine. I take umbrage with how they spend the money they tax me for. In New Jersey, we are allowed to vote on our school budgets. In my town, they have failed for the past umpteen years every year. Why? Pie in the sky spending, wasteful programs, etc.. The town council then trims the budget and passes it!

[Jack_Dubious]

Re: Re: my thought on AA

Originally posted by FactsOfLife

Why the hell aren't you playing Planetside with me!

Because I find Planetside offensive with its stereotypical view of the future where only the White Man has been able to conquer space. The only men of color are white dudes with bad tans. I might start playing if they release an expansion...."Planetside: Kill Whitey!"




JDub

ps-Ill pickup up a copy when i get back from Alaska. (my honeymoon)

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You don't expect the poor areas to afford to fund education when they can barely fund their own food.

That is so contrite. It is wrong. Look at the clothing that many of these kids wear. They can afford Tommy Hilfinger, FUBU, etc.. but not food?

Try priorites! Ever go to a nice grocery store and see someone in front of you using food stamps? They are never dressed in rags!

My family is my priority! I put them before everything. Mindsets are what you need to change first. Money won't change anything until that changes.

Instill a work ethic into these kids if you want them to succeed.

You never answered the Atlantic City example. 30 years and no change! Drop out rates still among the highest in the state! Phenominal facilities funded by the casinos! High per pupil spending! Drop out rate is over 30%!

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
What? Think about that. Vouchers would allow the kids that are being left behind to move to the better schools. People that can afford to will send their children to private schools regardless.
[/B]

I have thought about it. You need to think about it! Let me ask you...were you educated in a private school or public school (non-college)? You have this voucher and you are middle/upper middle class. Now you can either spend a little more plus use your voucher to send your kid to a school were he/she can be among other people of their "class" or use the voucher to send your kid among all those poor kids. It is pretty much obvious what will be the result. The voucher system will be the dismantling of the BEST school system in the world (yes I said BEST, better than Europe, Asia etc. in my opinion)

It is important as a society that we fund PUBLIC schools where all the kids learn to interact with one another and set the foundation for future relations. I could go on but now I am really getting off on a tangent. Besides why should I go on any longer when I have already proven my point and given you enough information to allow you to concede the errors in your thinking and thank me for imparting such inspirational wisdom at a bargain price

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


That is so contrite. It is wrong. Look at the clothing that many of these kids wear. They can afford Tommy Hilfinger, FUBU, etc.. but not food?

Try priorites! Ever go to a nice grocery store and see someone in front of you using food stamps? They are never dressed in rags!

My family is my priority! I put them before everything. Mindsets are what you need to change first. Money won't change anything until that changes.

Instill a work ethic into these kids if you want them to succeed.

You never answered the Atlantic City example. 30 years and no change! Drop out rates still among the highest in the state! Phenominal facilities funded by the casinos! High per pupil spending! Drop out rate is over 30%!

I don't know what poor people you are looking at, but the people at my local Piggly Wiggly who use food stamps are anything by nicely dressed.

See that is the problem with taking away the tax money from this. Everyone will look out for their own, and not care about the person making the 15,000 a year, and their kids will suffer and when they grow up make 15,000 a year. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. But that is another topic.

I did answer your question, I said they must be spending the money wrongly then, too much into buildings not enough into inputs and teachers.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


I have thought about it. You need to think about it! Let me ask you...were you educated in a private school or public school (non-college)? You have this voucher and you are middle/upper middle class. Now you can either spend a little more plus use your voucher to send your kid to a school were he/she can be among other people of their "class" or use the voucher to send your kid among all those poor kids. It is pretty much obvious what will be the result. The voucher system will be the dismantling of the BEST school system in the world (yes I said BEST, better than Europe, Asia etc. in my opinion)

I never said blanket vouchers for everybody did I? I like Bush's idea on vouchers. Not for everybody, but for the parents of children in failing schools. Not by race or wealth, but by schools that are failing. You know, "Leave No Child Behind!" The fact that most of the recepients may be minorities is irrelavent.

It is important as a society that we fund PUBLIC schools where all the kids learn to interact with one another and set the foundation for future relations. I could go on but now I am really getting off on a tangent. Besides why should I go on any longer when I have already proven my point and given you enough information to allow you to concede the errors in your thinking and thank me for imparting such inspirational wisdom at a bargain price
Fund yes, through money at them NO! Guess what? Catholic Schools educate their students in my area for almost half the per pupil cost of my local school system. Catholic schools are very affordable and have much better test scores in my area. So, if they provide a better education at a lower per pupil cost, do you see why I have a problem with letting the public schools have their way?

Vouchers would be competition for the loacal schools. The public schools would be forced by competition to do better or suffer! Survival of the fitest isn't pretty, but the public schools need a huge kick in the *RUMP*!

You want to improve public schools overnight, disband the NEA! Those who can teach, those who can't become NEA officers!

[Collegeboy]

What mark would you use to tell if a school is falling behind or not. Would you use a nationwide standardized test, or student’s grades or what?

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
What mark would you use to tell if a school is falling behind or not. Would you use a nationwide standardized test, or student’s grades or what?