wow Affirmative Action Upheld In Supreme Court

[Jack_Dubious]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I don't know what poor people you are looking at, but the people at my local Piggly Wiggly who use food stamps are anything by nicely dressed.

Where Im from its not uncommon to see someone pay with food stamps and then drive off in a new Mercedes. They take advantage of the loopholes in our welfare system and things like the Refugee Act.


JDub

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by shartley

You have hit on my pet peeve!!! I don't think that the U.S. should follow the European model which I personally hate. From a young age through testing your aptitude is "discovered". Then they start farming you out with regards to your aptitude. One person is fit for higher education another is fit for working in the Mercedes factory.

The problem is that kids mature at different rates (and some of us never mature ). A kid who may be ahead may seem like a prodigy at a young age but then be more average once his peers catch up with him. In our system we try to educate all kids "equally" (in theory) and then let them determine what they are best suited for. We even let the guy who tested at 12 as non college material to suddenly decide to go back and get his degree at 40. Does our system work? I point to all the innovation that occurs in the U.S. and all the strange and creative startup industries and say yes! Does it still have problems? Of course. Do I know the solutions? Sadly no......but I think following the Europeans is a mistake. They should be following us!

[shartley]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


You have hit on my pet peeve!!! I don't think that the U.S. should follow the European model which I personally hate. From a young age through testing your aptitude is "discovered". Then they start farming you out with regards to your aptitude. One person is fit for higher education another is fit for working in the Mercedes factory.

The problem is that kids mature at different rates (and some of us never mature ). A kid who may be ahead may seem like a prodigy at a young age but then be more average once his peers catch up with him. In our system we try to educate all kids "equally" (in theory) and then let them determine what they are best suited for. We even let the guy who tested at 12 as non college material to suddenly decide to go back and get his degree at 40. Does our system work? I point to all the innovation that occurs in the U.S. and all the strange and creative startup industries and say yes! Does it still have problems? Of course. Do I know the solutions? Sadly no......but I think following the Europeans is a mistake. They should be following us!

[GT]

I dont know I read some of ya'lls typical crappy responses and here is what I think.


This system was put inplace to make sure minorties could succed * if they wanted to in society. I awlays found it ironic that my minory buds in college would get *** loads of grant money while my family paid for my college again while my other majority friends put themselves in some intense debt to get through thier undergrad.


I think the whole system sux and is taken advantage of every dam day. Don't even get me started on colleges that cater to a specific minority group.


Finally, I guess, my wife is doing a thesis study on freshman that are likly to graduate based on thier interpersonal skills that tehy develop prior to thier freshman year in college. In other words, how well they communicate w/ people will determine whether or not they will graduate from college or not.

jb

[aaron_mag]

Like I said following the European system is my pet peeve. Little did you know you opened the door for me to go on a long soliloquy of my beliefs!

I will concede, however, using some of the ideas to fit our purposes may be the way to go. We have a school in Portland that does some of the things that you talk about and every graduate I meet raves about it (whether they were involved in the architecture program, the nursing program, or the carpentry program). They all think it is the best school ever.

So there might be something to it.....

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by gtrsi
I dont know I read some of ya'lls typical crappy responses and here is what I think.

Glad you could educate us as to our failings and enlighten us with your truly original thinking.

Paper sounds interesting (not being sarcastic now). Have to tell us her findings...

[Collegeboy]

Do you think that children (13, 14, 15 or so) will be able to make a decision about the rest of their lives. I know many 40 year olds that still don't know what they want to do for the rest of their lives, let alone a teenager.

Take my example. I at 10 years old knew that I wanted to be an engineer. I took the maths in high school did advanced physics and all that good stuff, got to college took all the basic maths (up to Dif Equ) then I did my first COOP and found out that engineering is not what I want. That was a year ago, I was 20 years old. Now how can a 15 year old decide what they want to do with the rest of their life if a 20, 30, 40, 50 year old people still can't.

[MagDog68]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Here is a thread primed to be closed!

Fox News-okay
CNN-Okay
NPR-Communist!

National Enquirer is where the REAL facts are!

I actually listen to NPR more than any other talk radio station. I guess I am a communist too. Or maybe I just don't agree with everything this country does just for the sake of "patriotism".

[GT]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


Glad you could educate us as to our failings and enlighten us with your truly original thinking.

Aaron I know it sounds dumb but folks will never ever change thier minds about these topics. Its kinda like pissing in the wind, moving and then hitting an electric fence. You end up with piss all over you and a little jump in the pants, of which none are a positive response.

jb

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


Current events and history must not be your strong point.

And I'll tell you once again Boy, I was LIVING your history before you were even a blue stain on your mommas EPT test.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


And I'll tell you once again Boy, I was LIVING your history before you were even a blue stain on your mommas EPT test.

You must have been hitting the good stuff, for you seem hazy on the history you say you lived through. (and just because you lived at that time means crap)

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Do you think that children (13, 14, 15 or so) will be able to make a decision about the rest of their lives. I know many 40 year olds that still don't know what they want to do for the rest of their lives, let alone a teenager.

Take my example. I at 10 years old knew that I wanted to be an engineer. I took the maths in high school did advanced physics and all that good stuff, got to college took all the basic maths (up to Dif Equ) then I did my first COOP and found out that engineering is not what I want. That was a year ago, I was 20 years old. Now how can a 15 year old decide what they want to do with the rest of their life if a 20, 30, 40, 50 year old people still can't.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You must have been hitting the good stuff, for you seem hazy on the history you say you lived through. (and just because you lived at that time means crap)

Seeing as it's your opinion, I don't think I'm going to lose a hell of a lot of sleep over this.

Please, stay in Commieland when you go. I'm sure you'll feel right at home.

Give my regards to the Kremlin.

[Viral]

lopxtc - not that I'm for AA, but you're better off as a Unix Programmer than a police any day. You'll live longer and make more money

Shartley - First off, thanks for not debating this topic. I was nervous you might get in here on your soapbox and start stating your opinion until I saw that first post from you

Anyway, just so I have the facts correct, you took your daughter out of school and home schooled her BECAUSE she was failing public school? This sounds to me like you were rewarding her for laziness. You even stated yourself that she's not a stupid person, just "failing due to non-interest." There's a word in the english language for that... lazy. You think I passed my classes because I was INTERESTED in pre-civil war history? I did it because my parents instilled in me the drive and values to succeed. I would bet a paycheck that most sutdents are not especially interested in every class that they take and pass. Homeschooling, in my opinion, is the complete and utter failure of a parent to motivate their kids to suck it and up pass their classes, interested or not.

Now on to apprenticeships. Public schools are designed to give children the basic education to survive in life. For the most part, it's not their job to prepare an individual for a career. When a student graduates high school, you hope that he or she has a good grasp on reading, writing and mathematics. You hope that they have at least a rudimentary understanding of basic sciences, history, government and maybe a little practice of liberal arts and/or sports. And you hope that they have developed a foundation of social skills. Homeschooling robs kids of most of these functions. Social skills are absolutely non-existant. Sports and liberal arts? Not too many homeschool football teams or drama clubs that I know of. And the courses are only as good as the teacher. I'm not saying you aren't an intelligent person, I don't know you personally, and you seem rather well read in these forums. But let's face it, students benefit from teachers that specialize in their particular field. A graduate level physics professor would make a crappy history teacher. All you've done is lowered the educational threshold to the point where your daughter's laziness is now adequate to pass her "classes."

And after public school, we already have lots of choices for the broad range of intelligence levels of our kids. We have vocational institutes, trade schools, job corps, universities and yes, even apprenticeships! But these should ALWAYS come after a basic education, they should NEVER replace it.

We need our next generation of Americans to be smarter, not dumber. This is the 21st century, not the 16th. Mastering a single trade is no longer sufficient education in this global economy. And even at 30, I couldn't even imagine trying to live on $13/hr. I make four times that now and haven't made less that that in over a decade, without a college degree. I would hope that's not a goal one of your children ever have to shoot for...

--Viral

[shartley]

Originally posted by Viral
lopxtc - not that I'm for AA, but you're better off as a Unix Programmer than a police any day. You'll live longer and make more money

Shartley - First off, thanks for not debating this topic. I was nervous you might get in here on your soapbox and start stating your opinion until I saw that first post from you

Funny coming from someone who just pulled up his OWN soapbox.

Originally posted by Viral
Anyway, just so I have the facts correct, you took your daughter out of school and home schooled her BECAUSE she was failing public school? This sounds to me like you were rewarding her for laziness. You even stated yourself that she's not a stupid person, just "failing due to non-interest." There's a word in the english language for that... lazy. You think I passed my classes because I was INTERESTED in pre-civil war history? I did it because my parents instilled in me the drive and values to succeed. I would bet a paycheck that most sutdents are not especially interested in every class that they take and pass. Homeschooling, in my opinion, is the complete and utter failure of a parent to motivate their kids to suck it and up pass their classes, interested or not. ly

Originally posted by Viral
Now on to apprenticeships. Public schools are designed to give children the basic education to survive in life. For the most part, it's not their job to prepare an individual for a career. When a student graduates high school, you hope that he or she has a good grasp on reading, writing and mathematics. You hope that they have at least a rudimentary understanding of basic sciences, history, government and maybe a little practice of liberal arts and/or sports. And you hope that they have developed a foundation of social skills. Homeschooling robs kids of most of these functions. Social skills are absolutely non-existant. Sports and liberal arts? Not too many homeschool football teams or drama clubs that I know of. And the courses are only as good as the teacher. I'm not saying you aren't an intelligent person, I don't know you personally, and you seem rather well read in these forums. But let's face it, students benefit from teachers that specialize in their particular field. A graduate level physics professor would make a crappy history teacher. All you've done is lowered the educational threshold to the point where your daughter's laziness is now adequate to pass her "classes."

Originally posted by Viral
And after public school, we already have lots of choices for the broad range of intelligence levels of our kids. We have vocational institutes, trade schools, job corps, universities and yes, even apprenticeships! But these should ALWAYS come after a basic education, they should NEVER replace it.

Originally posted by Viral
We need our next generation of Americans to be smarter, not dumber. This is the 21st century, not the 16th. Mastering a single trade is no longer sufficient education in this global economy. And even at 30, I couldn't even imagine trying to live on $13/hr. I make four times that now and haven't made less that that in over a decade, without a college degree. I would hope that's not a goal one of your children ever have to shoot for...

--Viral