Just Watched the Democratic Presidential Debate

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I am still waiting for them to announce that General Wesley Clark will seek the Democratic nomination.

A first in class west point graduate, 4 star General, former supreme commander of NATO, vs. a deserter.

That would be a classic match, one which I am sure that Bush will lose.

Hmmm.....

Seems like just a few days ago CB was convinced that if Clark ran he would not only get to Bush, but destroy him

[Albinonewt]

From David Frum (www.nationalreview.com

[shartley]

[aaron_mag]

I agree that anyone in the modern world that claims that they modeled their battles after Hannibal is just foolish. The world and warfare has changed since Hannibal's time.

Anyone, however, that wants to point out Hannibal's ultimate foolishness since he lost the war is an idiot. The reason the Hannibal campaign has withstood the test of time was because it was so amazing. They say history is written by the winners so why is it we know so much about Hannibal? It is a testament to how huge of a mark he made on the world in his time.

Hannibal was basically taking on the world super power of his day. He did something unheard of by taking the fight to the Romans on their home turf with rag tag group of soldiers (many of them mercenaries). Contemporaries of the time describe how the Romans almost sued for peace several times (interesting to think of how history would have been effected had this happened).

Had it not been for an equally great General to come to Rome's aid, Scipio Africanus, he may have been able to force the Romans to sue for peace. As great of a commander as Scipio Africanus was it must also be remembered that he was fighting WITH the most displined fighting force in that area of the world (the Roman legions) and not AGAINST it. Those who dismiss the success of Hannibal because the war was lost in the end are fools.

Two great books on the second Punic war:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0306805839/qid=1063817595/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4903034-6892959?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0306804980/qid=1063817715/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4903034-6892959?v=glance&s=books

[Albinonewt]

Hannibal could take Clark.

I used to watch the West Wing before it became unbearable, and there was a funny episode where the President was deciding whether or not he could take George Washington in a war. His aide responded with something along the lines of

"He would have the minutemen and you would have the Marines and the Air force? I think you could take him"

That made me think of that, it was funny

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Hmmm.....

Seems like just a few days ago CB was convinced that if Clark ran he would not only get to Bush, but destroy him

I said Bush vs Clark, Clark would destroy Bush. I never said that Clark would win the democratic nomination, which I hope he does but it doesn't look like he will.

As to the article it is typical right spin. Imagine us portraying the right as Nazis, lets see how long that will last.

When you are running against a President in office, you HAVE to talk about what they did and how you would have done it different. It is part of the job.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy


I said Bush vs Clark, Clark would destroy Bush. I never said that Clark would win the democratic nomination, which I hope he does but it doesn't look like he will.

Whatever dude

As to the article it is typical right spin. Imagine us portraying the right as Nazis, lets see how long that will last.

Well, it is opinion of a conservative based on factual occurences. Clark did lead a purely humantarian war. There's nothing untruthful about that. There is certainly opinion in the article, but that hardly makes it fictional. I agree with Frum, that an unpopular military opinion is no different to the American people if it comes from a military man or a Vermont Governor.

As for Nazis. Um, conservatives are compared to the Nazis all the time in nearly every kind of medium you can find. ALL THE TIME.

When you are running against a President in office, you HAVE to talk about what they did and how you would have done it different. It is part of the job.

True, but I think what Shartley was saying is that it's not enough to say you didn't like the way he did something, you need an alternative and to be clear exactly what you didn't like and why. It's not enough to say "I would have done coalition building". Bush did coalition building. Now, it could be argued that the coalition wasn't big enough or didn't have the right nations or whatever, but you can't say he didn't build one.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
As for Nazis. Um, conservatives are compared to the Nazis all the time in nearly every kind of medium you can find. ALL THE TIME.

Ever wonder why? (cheap shot but you left yourself open) :)

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


Ever wonder why? (cheap shot but you left yourself open) :)

Because the liberals that call us that are children that don't want to do anything but jump up and down and cry foul?

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Because the liberals that call us that are children that don't want to do anything but jump up and down and cry foul?

Like it is any different on either side! I don't know how many times I have been called a hippie pot smoker on this board even though I have always had short hair and don't smoke!

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


Like it is any different on either side! I don't know how many times I have been called a hippie pot smoker on this board even though I have always had short hair and don't smoke!

Hold the phone there buddy.

First, how many pot smoking hippies in America are Liberals?

Second, the hippie movement and the liberal movement in the 60's and early 70's were intertwined for more then a decade in America.

Third, Nazis were in Germany, thousands of miles away in another country accross an ocean and had nothing to do with American culture

Fourth, being called a Hippie means you're a liberal that eats soy products and wears clothing made of hemp while saying dude every fourth word. Being a Nazi means you murder a few dozen people a day and shoot their children in front of them so they know to behave. The two are not comparable

Fifth, Hippies are responsible for Jimmy Hendrix. Nazis are responsible for the murder of millions of innocent people.

[Albinonewt]

And further more.

Being called a pot smoking hippie liberal is usually spoken in derision as a blanket for anti-war, anti-globalization, pro-choice, free love and that whole platform. And by and large most liberal people believe in those concepts to some degree or another. So although the comment is meant in a derogatory fashion the glove does typically fit at least in some way, it may be an exageration but it is not wholly without merit.

To call conservatives Nazis means that everyone that does fit our socio economic profile is an untermensch who deserves nothing better then extermination at the hands of our military so that we can use their women and children as our slaves. Futhermore it disgustingly minimizes the horror of the Holocaust that in no way is comparable to anything that the term hippie connotes.

[than205]

I believe the term Fascism is used more than relegating to calling the Neo-cons Nazis.

[Army]

So far, so good at keeping this civil and educational. Stay on track:)

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Fourth, being called a Hippie means you're a liberal that eats soy products and wears clothing made of hemp while saying dude every fourth word. Being a Nazi means you murder a few dozen people a day and shoot their children in front of them so they know to behave. The two are not comparable

Look dude! I mean if the whole world went soy and stopped wasteful animal production we could stamp out hunger dude. Check this out dude...did you know that the hormones they are putting into meat cause aggression. Just think about it dude. World peace and no more hunger. You need to start thinking of soy as your friend dude. As for hemp dude you need to know that it is the world's strongest natural fire. It is renewable dude and DUDE it has a killer byproduct that gives you a whole new outlook.

Okay I couldn't get dude into every fourth word but how was my attempt.