Womd

[Collegeboy]

You all are beyond hope. And you wonder what makes people hate Americans so much. They need to no more then read this thread and see how people are laughing at there miserable plight. How dare you make fun of innocent people who are doing nothing more then try and live their life to the best of their abilities. I would expect warnings to be handed out, but I forget what forum I am on. A mod can trivialize the deaths of 911, but let someone accuse a member of it and he gets threatened with banishment.

You don't understand what I am saying on terrorism. A country can not come out and organization can not come out and say they agree with terrorism. It is wrong. But that doesn't make it not a valid form of warfare. The bombing of Hamburg, Berlin and Tokyo was condemned by many, but that doesn't make it invalid.

Until Israel removes themselves from their illegally held land, and bring the Palestinians away from their camps, the violence will continue to spread.

[paintballguy429]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Originally posted by Collegeboy


So you want the Palestinians to forget their homes being blown up, their living conditions being worse then a dog, their apartments getting light up by missiles, their strip searches just to go to work.

Why are these conditions necessay? It is because terrorists are hiding amoungst the Palestinians. The Israelis have a right to self defence, not offense.

Why the searches? Because the Palestinians have shown that they will use anyone as a suicide bomber.

The Israeli quality of life is great too? Armed guards everywhere. Hell they have guards out side the 7-11s there. Of course that is to keep the Palestinians inside behind the register!

This is why I really like the Israeli fence idea! Good fences make good neighbors. Maybe if we seperate the two of them peace will follow. Build that wall up Mr. Sharon!

You said and others said that it is unlawful for it targets civilians; the allied bombings did the same thing. So was that unlawful.

Is there a declared state of war between the Palestinian Authority and the State of Israel? Didn't think so. Total war as in WWII was to destroy the enemys' production capabilities. It was to disrupt their supplies.

Terrorism is to spread terror. The terrorist have not hit any starategic targets. They target soft targets like the cowards they are!

Man, you really don't get it. So as long as Israel is fighting a "War on Terror" they have the right to kill more innocents than the terrorists themselves? Yeah, just because they supposedly have good intentions they can murder to their hearts desire.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
You all are beyond hope. And you wonder what makes people hate Americans so much. They need to no more then read this thread and see how people are laughing at there miserable plight. How dare you make fun of innocent people who are doing nothing more then try and live their life to the best of their abilities. I would expect warnings to be handed out, but I forget what forum I am on. A mod can trivialize the deaths of 911, but let someone accuse a member of it and he gets threatened with banishment.

Are you still crying about that?

You don't understand what I am saying on terrorism. A country can not come out and organization can not come out and say they agree with terrorism. It is wrong. But that doesn't make it not a valid form of warfare. The bombing of Hamburg, Berlin and Tokyo was condemned by many, but that doesn't make it invalid.

Um, CB, the fact that nobody should support it or admit to is kind should be your first clue that it is in fact NOT valid. Unlike your other examples where civillians die they were killed as collateral damange in an attack on a strategic goal. The object of terrorim is to kill civillians without a strategic goal. Being absent of that strategic goal makes terrorism not a war tactic, but a fear tactic.

Until Israel removes themselves from their illegally held land, and bring the Palestinians away from their camps, the violence will continue to spread.

And for the billionth time, they were removing themselves from the occupied land, but the violence escalated again and now they've stopped the process (I think). It also appears they're going to be making new settlements. I didn't read the article though, I just saw the headline and then had to get going, but if that's true then it's about the stupidest thing I've heard in sometime

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by paintballguy429
Man, you really don't get it. So as long as Israel is fighting a "War on Terror" they have the right to kill more innocents than the terrorists themselves? Yeah, just because they supposedly have good intentions they can murder to their hearts desire.

Um, basically, yeah. But with some exceptions.

They may not target civillians for the sake of just killing people. (which they don't)

They must take at least some precautions to avoid killing innocents (which they do, the Israelis don't go in blasting every Palestinian they see, otherwise it wouldn't be a couple of innocents dying in stikes, it would be hundreds)

I'll tell ya, If I were Israel I wouldn't do any of the missile strikes anymore. They're useless. They almost never kill the person they're after and they almost always get people they're not after. I think it's well past time they find a more effective way to deal with the single terrorist assassiniation attempts. The missile strikes don't work.

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


So it is without proof twice removed?

And what about this line?



Just the other day you had SEEN reports. Now you've heard them from friends. Tomorrow you will have had a bad dream about Israel.



If you collabarated my stories it would be because you read the same verifiable sources that I read and then repeated them. Not some unidentified source that you couldn't find.

Alas, those were two different instances I referenced. The one about the pregnant woman was heresay, whereas the other was on a TV news program.

But you, as much as I'd like to say otherwise, are correct. I shouldn't post in a debate without proof.


1DE, it is, however, somewhat understandable (though not for lack of a better word, good.) that Palestinians use terrorism rather than an army. If you were a fanatic who wanted freedom from an American backed country would you fight fair? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Collegeboy]

[Army]

I said I was done, but CB is spouting pure, unadulterated ignorance again.

Buddy, don't be citing events in declared war to justify criminal terrorism.

Tokyo had moved war material production into homes and small shops throughout the city. We had already blown away Tokyo harbor, and the factory neighborhoods, yet war material production continued. We fire bombed Tokyo because conventional bursting munitions had little effect on buildings made of lightweight material. Dresden was the same. Messerschmidt aircraft production was actually UP from the start of the war, due to manufacture being spread out among the homes and small shops throughout the city. British and American flyers did their level best to keep damage to minimum around Berlin. We didn't want to destroy historical areas, so actually left many buildings alone (Reichstag, Brandenburg Gate, etc). The Soviets didn't have that same compunction, they shelled and burned everything, as that is how they fight wars.

Terrorism as a legit form of warfare? You're a complete dick if you realy believe that. Guerrilla warfare can be accepted, since they usually target those in power or control, police, military, government. Terrorists are too cowardly for that. Their goal, and ONLY goal, is to instill fear among the civilian populace. Since Arafat condones terrorist activity, those that follow him are well aware that Israel will retaliate with military tactics, and position themselves to cause death and injury among THEIR OWN PEOPLE. Remember, Arafat planned and coordinated the 1972 kidnappings and murder of the Israeli Olympic atheletes, this makes him a criminal, a murderer of many thousands of INNOCENT people. He heads the PLO, which is a misnomer, as there has never been an actual Palestine to liberate.

Palestinians live much the same as we do...except for the Xbox and 3 TVs in every room, but we're weird that way...They are not living in cardboard boxes, nor flimsy shelters, nor are they being starved out of existence. You really need to check up on your facts before they become your statements. Israel claimed those lands from Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Egypt after those contries attacked her and she pushed them back farther into their own lands then where they began their attack from. That's not illegal, nor unexpected, and was their RIGHT to do so. Israel offered to pull out of the territories, recognise Palestine as a state, and drop prosecution of Arafat and other terrorists, if the PLO would stop their terror campaign. We all know they didn't stop, since that is NOT their goal. They DON'T CARE about being a state. They DON'T CARE about re-occupying the territories. They DON'T CARE if Arafat is in charge or not. They DON'T CARE about innocent lives. They want Israel and all jews to DIE...PERIOD!

I deal in reality, not "what if's". Good and bad, right and wrong, black and white. Those are my criteria for living, and world opinion. There are no colors, only fact and result.


...and THAT is the last I will say about all this.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Army

I deal in reality, not "what if's". Good and bad, right and wrong, black and white. Those are my criteria for living, and world opinion. There are no colors, only fact and result.

That is the problem with how you view things. The world is not black or white, there is no clear cut good or evil, there is no clear cut right or wrong. That is reality; your thinking only leads to a wishful reality.


The actions of the terrorist are taking place during a declared war. Jihad, a declared war against the enemies of Islam. Terrorism is an age old tactic of warfare. It is a valid form of warfare just as lining two armies should to should and shooting at each other Napoleonic style was considered a criteria of war. Just as strategic bombings or carpet bombings are considered standard warfare.

The allied fired bombed Hamburg so bad that a cyclone of fire rained through the air. They found innocent people boiled alive inside pools of water, they founded people burnt to ashes inside basements. The allies purposely bombed a city full of innocent people. Am I saying that is wrong, no, it is war, and war is hell. But I am saying for one to condemn the Palestinians for trying to gain freedom from the repressive actions of the IDF, means the same condemnation needs to be extend to all armies as of recent and some before.

Palestinians in these camps do NOT live like we do. We are not threatened with your house being bulldozed down; we are not threatened with getting stripped searched just for going to the store for milk and bread. We are not in fear every night that our building is going to be hit with a bomb while we are sleeping. We are not in fear every night that our building will be hit with missiles. We are not in fear every time we go to get some food that we will be hit by PDF machine gun fire. Now the same has to be said about the life of the Israelis. By you saying that the life of a Palestinian is the same as ours, shows how much you do not understand the situation.

Land acquired in a war that is not given to you in a formal treaty is occupied land and according to the UN is illegal for you to hold. Now land taken in a war and given to you in a treaty is different.

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by Collegeboy



Palestinians in these camps do NOT live like we do. We are not threatened with your house being bulldozed down; we are not threatened with getting stripped searched just for going to the store for milk and bread. We are not in fear every night that our building is going to be hit with a bomb while we are sleeping. We are not in fear every night that our building will be hit with missiles. We are not in fear every time we go to get some food that we will be hit by PDF machine gun fire. Now the same has to be said about the life of the Israelis. By you saying that the life of a Palestinian is the same as ours, shows how much you do not understand the situation.

That's how I live..

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
You all are beyond hope. And you wonder what makes people hate Americans so much. They need to no more then read this thread and see how people are laughing at there miserable plight. How dare you make fun of innocent people who are doing nothing more then try and live their life to the best of their abilities. I would expect warnings to be handed out, but I forget what forum I am on.

I was laughing at the potty story. I thought it was funny and could relate! But then again, I guess your poop doesn't stink CB so you can't relate!

A mod can trivialize the deaths of 911, but let someone accuse a member of it and he gets threatened with banishment.

Didn't happen, the Mod trivializing thing. If it were up to me, you would be in the land of Starbase_C_G_I!

You don't understand what I am saying on terrorism. A country can not come out and organization can not come out and say they agree with terrorism. It is wrong. But that doesn't make it not a valid form of warfare. The bombing of Hamburg, Berlin and Tokyo was condemned by many, but that doesn't make it invalid.

Apples and oranges!

Until Israel removes themselves from their illegally held land, and bring the Palestinians away from their camps, the violence will continue to spread.

They tried this when they left their Lebanese "Buffer" zone. Did the Syrian sponsored attacks from Hezbollah stop? NO!!!

Israel learned their lesson already!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by paintballguy429


Man, you really don't get it. So as long as Israel is fighting a "War on Terror" they have the right to kill more innocents than the terrorists themselves? Yeah, just because they supposedly have good intentions they can murder to their hearts desire.

Let me explain this to you again!

Blowing yourself up in a Sbarro=Murder.

Innocent killed while exchanging fire with terror suspects=Collateral damage.

'nuff said!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

The actions of the terrorist are taking place during a declared war. Jihad, a declared war against the enemies of Islam. Terrorism is an age old tactic of warfare. It is a valid form of warfare just as lining two armies should to should and shooting at each other Napoleonic style was considered a criteria of war. Just as strategic bombings or carpet bombings are considered standard warfare.

So a private declaration of war is valid? Only a government may declare war. The Palestinian Authoruty is the closest hing the Palestinians have to that. They are not at war with Israel and have denounced all of the suicide attacks. If you believe their denials.

The allied fired bombed Hamburg so bad that a cyclone of fire rained through the air. They found innocent people boiled alive inside pools of water, they founded people burnt to ashes inside basements. The allies purposely bombed a city full of innocent people. Am I saying that is wrong, no, it is war, and war is hell. But I am saying for one to condemn the Palestinians for trying to gain freedom from the repressive actions of the IDF, means the same condemnation needs to be extend to all armies as of recent and some before.

Big difference in these is the war. We were at war with Germany. The German gov't did not apologize to America and denounce the SS for atacking. Can't you see the difference?

BTW Al Asqua is an offshoot of Arafat's Fatah party, so the suicide bombers do work for him!
[
Palestinians in these camps do NOT live like we do. We are not threatened with your house being bulldozed down; we are not threatened with getting stripped searched just for going to the store for milk and bread. We are not in fear every night that our building is going to be hit with a bomb while we are sleeping. We are not in fear every night that our building will be hit with missiles. We are not in fear every time we go to get some food that we will be hit by PDF machine gun fire. Now the same has to be said about the life of the Israelis. By you saying that the life of a Palestinian is the same as ours, shows how much you do not understand the situation.

Sounds a lot like Camden, NJ!


Land acquired in a war that is not given to you in a formal treaty is occupied land and according to the UN is illegal for you to hold. Now land taken in a war and given to you in a treaty is different.

Land conquered is yours. Also, Jordan ceded the conquered land to a future Palestinian state, so that land is in limbo. Also, a treaty signed at the point of a gun is the same thing as stealing.

Memo to the Israelis: Next time you kick the crap out of your neighbors, make sure you force them to sign treaties before you let them crawl away so CB will declare your victory legal!

[Collegeboy]

According to the UN resolution I posted, all lands taken through a war are unlawful. You have to exchange some goods, money, or something, in a sort of peace treaty between the two.

You two were making fun of the Palestinians and their plight.

Yes, Miscue did trivialize the deaths of those who died on 911, by using them their deaths to justify the attack on Iraq.

No 1de, they are not totally different. Though you would like to say they are so you don't have to put up with the question I posed.

I never said that all attacks will stop. But once the Israelis pull out they will remove all credibility these terror groups have with the Palestinians. They will see the groups has hampering their efforts for an independent state, not Israel.

The Palestinians have been in a constant war since the dawn of time, or at least in the last 80 years or so. They use the only weapon they have to push the Israelis off of their land, and to try and save their people from the camps they live in now.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
According to the UN resolution I posted, all lands taken through a war are unlawful. You have to exchange some goods, money, or something, in a sort of peace treaty between the two.

Memo to Sharon: Kick the crap out of Syria, throw Bashir Assad a twenty dollar bill and then force him to sign over the Golan heights.

You two were making fun of the Palestinians and their plight.

So now you are a psychic? He made a potty joke about weapons of mass destruction. I found it funny. You have never made a fart joke CB? What are you, gay?

BTW, Don't accuse me of this kind of crap again. I know my poop stinks, I guess you think yours does not!

Yes, Miscue did trivialize the deaths of those who died on 911, by using them their deaths to justify the attack on Iraq.

No he did not. That is what YOU read into it!

No 1de, they are not totally different. Though you would like to say they are so you don't have to put up with the question I posed.

Yes they are!

I never said that all attacks will stop. But once the Israelis pull out they will remove all credibility these terror groups have with the Palestinians. They will see the groups has hampering their efforts for an independent state, not Israel.

Moral high ground doesn't do much when the terrorists are slaughtering your women and children. You really are a fool.

The Palestinians have been in a constant war since the dawn of time, or at least in the last 80 years or so. They use the only weapon they have to push the Israelis off of their land, and to try and save their people from the camps they live in now.

See that is the problem. The Palestinians want all of the land, including Israel! The Israelis kind of like existing. The crux of the problem.

You who claim to sit in the middle are very one sided on this issue. That Palestinian Puntag you are tapping now must be real good stuff, cause you are so twisted up that you are starring at your own @ss when you look down!

[Collegeboy]

No, not all or even most of the Palestinians want the Jews out of the Middle East. That is only propaganda spread by the western media and soaked up by people like you.

Yes Miscue did trivialize their deaths. If me saying that I will include the deaths of those on 911 with all other deaths in the world in my post is trivializing their deaths, then clearly someone using their deaths to justify something that has nothing to do with them and had no change of even threatening is trivializing their deaths. I guess since his name is not collegeboy, and he is a mod, he follows by a different set of rules.

Moral high ground holds a lot in the international arena. Who ever holds the moral high ground gets the majority of the international arena to push the other into submission. Hence why Palestine holds the moral agenda right now and the majority of the world supports them and their plight.