bush's motives?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Jack_Dubious






JDub

Shhhhh! You have revealed Bush's secret plan!

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Buff




roaddawg, I can tell ur from cali:P

Fixed your post by the way.

Buff- I'm from Utah originally (non-mormon too). I didn't grow up on a air base but I have family in military. My older brother is in fact on his way to Afghanistan. He's been in Kuwaitt and Bosnia. He was in Kuwaitt when 9/11 happened.

On top of that I used common sense as to how the military would respond, guess I was wrong. In fact in doing my research I found some transcripts from the FAA saying that the Air Force had detoured planes previously in that area pre 9/11. More often then not without anything said from the WH. BUT during the 9/11 attacks no planes were even in the air around DC. So basically the plane could of hit the white house, instead of the Pentagon before any fighter got off the ground. Doesn't make sense to me but hey I'm not in charge.

Shartley- uhh so it's not ok to blame the current president but it's ok to blame the previous one? Oh well. I agree that the fact different people assign different blame. I see the glass half full and many would see it half empty. The truth of the matter is that it's only half a glass. Which to use your assigning blame as an example would be that someone is to blame. If we can't figure out who or how many are to blame then god help us all.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
. The plan was against the Taliban. Which previously Bush was trying to get oil from. He was threatening war against them if they did not go thru with the deal. (In the process of searching for the article, when found I'll post it)

WTF are you talking about. If Afghanistan had substantial oil, they would not be so desperately poor. The Taliban permitted Osama because they needed his money. If they had oil, they wouldn't have needed him.

Post proof or drop that inane line of garbage!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
On top of that I used common sense as to how the military would respond, guess I was wrong. In fact in doing my research I found some transcripts from the FAA saying that the Air Force had detoured planes previously in that area pre 9/11. More often then not without anything said from the WH. BUT during the 9/11 attacks no planes were even in the air around DC. So basically the plane could of hit the white house, instead of the Pentagon before any fighter got off the ground. Doesn't make sense to me but hey I'm not in charge.

Well let's correct a few things in your post. First, fighter jets were scrambled from Pamona AFB in NJ outside AC to respond to the Boston flights. They arrived too late.

The flight out of DC circled around and hit the Pentagon. No intercepter could have stopped it. They would have to have been their already. Had that plane headed for the White House, it would have been shot down. Apparently you do not remember the small single engine plane that hit the White House when Clinton lived there. The Secret Service was criticized for not shooting it down then. Guess what, the White House has contingency plans for an attack. That flight would have been shot down before it ever got to the White House. Unfortunately the Pentagon did not have the same protection.

Finally the final flight out of Newark would have been shot down in PA before it crossed the Mason Dixon Line. Fighters out of Norfolk were scrambled to intercept it. They actually flew at Supersonic speeds and were not that far away when the passengers forced that plane down. Had they not, rest assured that the Air Force would have downed that flight!

Finally as for your they should have known, how could they. This was an attack on a scale undreamed of. No sane person could have concieved of this strike.

Why blame Clinton? His lack of response to earlier terrorist attacks encoraged and emboldened the terrorists. He had Bin Laden and released him!

[RoadDawg]

My bad. I got the years mixed up. It was actually Clinton that started the whole bid for oil. It's concerning the pipeline to the Caspien Sea, which the area surrounding is rich in oil. Here is some reading material

My reasoning was the DC area. I knew about the previous ones. The DC fighters in Langley were kept on the ground. It was ONE hour from the last tower to the pentagon attack. No one thought to have fighters already up in the DC area to protect the WH or DC area? Yes I do remember the single plane that hit the WH. I would of criticized them then too but seeing as I was in Jr High/High School age I could care less. Ok I wanna see the burden of proof with the Bin Laden being caputre and release under Clinton.

[ShooterJM]

The Washington Post reported that Sudan had offered in 1996 to extradite bin Laden, who was wanted at that time for attacks on U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia.

Clinton said he had no real reason to hold him (apparently dead servicemen don't count), and declined the offer so bin Laden went free.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
My bad. I got the years mixed up. It was actually Clinton that started the whole bid for oil. It's concerning the pipeline to the Caspien Sea, which the area surrounding is rich in oil. Here is some reading material


Big difference between building a pipeline and having oil!

My reasoning was the DC area. I knew about the previous ones. The DC fighters in Langley were kept on the ground. It was ONE hour from the last tower to the pentagon attack. No one thought to have fighters already up in the DC area to protect the WH or DC area? Yes I do remember the single plane that hit the WH. I would of criticized them then too but seeing as I was in Jr High/High School age I could care less.

No one new we were under attack at that point. If you remember, there were still hundreds of planes in the air at that time. After the second impact, the FAA ordered all planes to land. Don't you remember the mess that caused withpeople trying to get home?

The remaining hijackings were not discovered until it was too late. Look how fast eerything happened. Until the second tower was hit, everyone assumed the first was an accident. 45 minutes is not a lot of time in a crisis!

Ok I wanna see the burden of proof with the Bin Laden being caputre and release under Clinton.

In 1996, Bin Laden was expelled from the Sudan under pressure from the US Government. At that point he was offered up on a silver platter. Madeline Allbright(or should we say Not-to-bright) stated that the State Department did not feel that they had a strong enough case so they allowed him to relocate to Afghanistan.

Click here for the rest of the story!

[RoadDawg]

Wow. I did not know that such an occasion came up for Clinton. Bad call on that administrations point but if they can't prove a solid case against him then what would of been the point anyway.

The pipeline is what I was referring too. Not that Afghanistan had oil.

As far as the scrambling I guess it would be a little too close to tell. I do remember the mass histeria and also remember walking outside to go to work and only hearing F-16's flying around. Which was highly unusual for my location at the time. It was right off the landing area for the SLC International Airport and the F-16's were out of Hill AFB many miles north of SLC.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Wow. I did not know that such an occasion came up for Clinton. Bad call on that administrations point but if they can't prove a solid case against him then what would of been the point anyway.

Bad call, you think?

No, did you read the article? Albright used that "excuse". The only condition the nation put was an official visit from Clinton to boost there international prestige.

Bin Laden was already connected to various terorist acts. Clinton royally screwed up!

The pipeline is what I was referring too. Not that Afghanistan had oil.

Big difference, eh?

As far as the scrambling I guess it would be a little too close to tell. I do remember the mass histeria and also remember walking outside to go to work and only hearing F-16's flying around. Which was highly unusual for my location at the time. It was right off the landing area for the SLC International Airport and the F-16's were out of Hill AFB many miles north of SLC.

The intercepters were allowed to go super sonic on 9/11 to reach the last jet. Going supersonic over populate areas is a major no no. I guess that tells you the military was doing everything they could one they realized what was happening.

Remember a sneak attack is just that! Pearl Harbor lasted how long? They were both cowardly and evil attacks by animals!

[logamus]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Finally the final flight out of Newark would have been shot down in PA before it crossed the Mason Dixon Line.

would have been, or was.


while we are on the topic of motives, now that the president and vice-president have agreed to answer questions in private and not under oath, might it be time for clinton and gore to offer up the same? why do those guys get a free pass on this? as it has been pointed out earlier, 9/11 took more than 8 months to plan so perhaps the commission has some questions for the fellas in charge during the planning of 9/11.

i am also quite pleased that bush changed his mind and agreed to let condi testify. imho he has dropped the ball at every turn with the 9/11 commission, but im glad he keeps picking it back up.

[RoadDawg]

Although horrible, they were executed with genious ways.

[shartley]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Although horrible, they were executed with genious ways.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by xXhAppyAznXx
how bout bush's "true" objective
is it really to save iraq?
or is it to gain that oil?

how does this oil story go? thats what im interested in

Think of the oil like this.

We would have to have Iraq produce oil at its limit for more then a decade and take every penny from that in order to break even with what we've spent up to this point.

The war wasn't for oil. If we wanted the oil we would have bought it from Saddam, who would have sold it to us cheap just to remove the trade embargos.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Think of the oil like this.

We would have to have Iraq produce oil at its limit for more then a decade and take every penny from that in order to break even with what we've spent up to this point.

The war wasn't for oil. If we wanted the oil we would have bought it from Saddam, who would have sold it to us cheap just to remove the trade embargos.

BINGO

[logamus]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Think of the oil like this.

We would have to have Iraq produce oil at its limit for more then a decade and take every penny from that in order to break even with what we've spent up to this point.

The war wasn't for oil. If we wanted the oil we would have bought it from Saddam, who would have sold it to us cheap just to remove the trade embargos.

the only minor counter point to make, and it is minor, is that now american companies like halliburton can handle the oil instead of just buying it from the iraqi government. not that having halliburton running the oil pipeline is a vaild reason for war, just something to add to the disscussion.