bush's motives?

[shartley]

Originally posted by bokraham
the 1984 comment remark I made had nothing to do with a totalitarian goverenment. I meant the bush is using war to make us forget how else he is screwing up. We lost interest in the Afganistan war, so he started another one. Now i'm not saying that this is the reason that we went to war AT ALL, however it may, MAY have been one of bush's subconcious or even concious secreat motives. Another thing that has to do with 1984 is how big brother used propaganda like bush. Big brother had the pictures of enemy solders, bush had a far more cleverer way. He showed the twin towers in his campaign ad. Also don't anyone say taht 9/11 has anything to do with the war in Iraq. There is proof that bush wanted to go into Iraq before 9/11. Also don't say that bush went into Iraq to combat the eeeeeeeevilist place on earth, there are far, far more evil people than those in Iraq. For instance there is a country in Africa, I can't remember it's name right now, where thousands of people are being slaughtered coutinuously, and they even asked us for help, and we turned them down.


about all of these anti-clinton remarks saying that he did nothing against terrorists. Well, what do you think got us in this position in the first place, MESSING WITH THERE AFFAIRS. If we had just stayed out of them, like Clinton did, we would not have any terrorists.


AN EYE FOR AN EYE WILL MAKE THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND.

I only have one word for this... Hogwash.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Please do us all a favor and try to hijack a plane with one. If the passenger don't kill you, the sky marshall might. If not him, then get ready for a life sentence in the Federal pokey.

That is just a flat out stupid comment. How are you going to take over a plane with a pen? [/B]

Who'd of thunk that they took over a plane with Box cutters and zip ties. A pen is a very mighty weapon. A good sort of items found on a plane can be used as a weapon. I'm not gonna attempt it because #1 I'm not stupid and #2 I have absolutely No reason/will to do so. In case you haven't noticed pens can be just as sharp if not have something inside of them. Plus the fact that one kid managed to strategically place box cutters inside of planes to show the security isn't doing anything is a whole other story. Now I'm not saying that it's entirely possible to do it with just a pen but a pen will do some van damage. I'm not talking those cheap 89 cent pens either. Those would break before the skin. I'm talkint the expensive AT Cross/Waterman pens.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by bokraham

about all of these anti-clinton remarks saying that he did nothing against terrorists. Well, what do you think got us in this position in the first place, MESSING WITH THERE AFFAIRS. If we had just stayed out of them, like Clinton did, we would not have any terrorists.


AN EYE FOR AN EYE WILL MAKE THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND.

You must be kidding me...


HMM USS Cole...

HMM Embassy Bombings...

Lets not forget the FIRST world trade center bombing...

Those sure werent done by any terrorists

And after we didnt do anything after WTC I... they wouldent attack us of course that would be silly...

In fact im so confident in your theory that I MUST be just imaginging the attack our embassy's and the USS cole...

We didnt do anything before 9-11 either... guess what happened... yeah your theory holds water... like a pasta strainer...

Thats like saying yeah the gangsters killed my brother, then later killed my mom, then killed my dad... Maybe if i just keep quiet they wont come after me.... or kill the rest of my family...

Wow... I thought I was making a joke last time Liberals REALLY dont get it...

[logamus]

Originally posted by RoadDawg

Who'd of thunk that they took over a plane with Box cutters and zip ties.

a fair point, however in todays climate you better have an assload of pens. people today wont just sit there like they did on 9/11. hell those people thought they were going to cuba, or hati or somalia or anywhere other than being turned into a gigantic missle. those hijackers effectively ended the hijacking industry. from that day on people will think they are going to die if they just sit in their seats so fighting the hijackers is a no-lose proposition. i do see your point that someone determined enough could attempt, and very easily hurt/maim/kill someone, but not enough to complete their task.

[Butterfingers]

Not to mention that all cockpit doors nowadays are locked from the inside and cant be opened from the pasenger compartment.

[RoadDawg]

NO but depressurizing the plane can cause problems. If they have access doors to the bottom (not sure if they do or not) that could be a potential hazard as well. Considering most of the fragile stuff is in the belly. Now I agree to the fact that it'd have to be more then one person w /pens to be able to make anything like that work but on a flight that has only 17 people on board and 5 or more are in it together that's around 3 to a terrorist. Now don't go thinking I'm a terrorists or plan stuff like this just cause these are just off the wall ideas that have a slim but possible chance of succeding. Getting through the cockpit would be a tough thing. But I will say that many flights I have been on lately the door opens up at least twice during flight. Mainly at cruising altitude 30+ min into the flight. Anyways. I think this thread has been hijacked enough and should go back to the original topic. It was fun though guys.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by bokraham
about all of these anti-clinton remarks saying that he did nothing against terrorists. Well, what do you think got us in this position in the first place, MESSING WITH THERE AFFAIRS. If we had just stayed out of them, like Clinton did, we would not have any terrorists.

Are you on crack? During Clinton's watch we had the 1st WTC bombing, the truck bombing of Two American Embassies in Africa, The Marine Barracks bombing in Saudia Arabia, and the bombing of the USS Cole! By not forcefully responding, Clinton encouraged the terrorists to try bigger and bigger targets! Clinton stayed out of their business and the attacks escalated. The 2nd WTC attack took more then 8 months to plan and execute, so it started under Clinton's watch.

You need to think before you post next time!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
NO but depressurizing the plane can cause problems. If they have access doors to the bottom (not sure if they do or not) that could be a potential hazard as well. Considering most of the fragile stuff is in the belly. Now I agree to the fact that it'd have to be more then one person w /pens to be able to make anything like that work but on a flight that has only 17 people on board and 5 or more are in it together that's around 3 to a terrorist. Now don't go thinking I'm a terrorists or plan stuff like this just cause these are just off the wall ideas that have a slim but possible chance of succeding. Getting through the cockpit would be a tough thing. But I will say that many flights I have been on lately the door opens up at least twice during flight. Mainly at cruising altitude 30+ min into the flight. Anyways. I think this thread has been hijacked enough and should go back to the original topic. It was fun though guys.

Watch Myth Busters sometime. They are not going to depressurize a plane with a pen. Also as stated before, the box cutters worked on 3 flights. When the passangers on the final flight learned what was going on, the overpowered the afore mentioned armed murderers. THey forced the plane down!

Also, one of those seventeen could be a sky marshall, so 5 terrorists against a SM with a 17 round mag. That's 3 bullets per scumbag before reloading.

Also, passengers are paranoid these days. Look at the shoe bomber Richard Reid. They beat him down nicely. Me, I would have saved the trial expenses and choked him to death on the plane, you know in self defense during the struggle!

[logamus]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Not to mention that all cockpit doors nowadays are locked from the inside and cant be opened from the pasenger compartment.

they locked that way prior to 9/11 too. they were just given extra reinforcements. if they cant be opened from the passenger compartment, how do the pilots get in?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by logamus

they locked that way prior to 9/11 too. they were just given extra reinforcements. if they cant be opened from the passenger compartment, how do the pilots get in?

Please tell me you are kidding right? It is not a bus.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by bokraham
the 1984 comment remark I made had nothing to do with a totalitarian goverenment. I meant the bush is using war to make us forget how else he is screwing up. We lost interest in the Afganistan war, so he started another one. Now i'm not saying that this is the reason that we went to war AT ALL, however it may, MAY have been one of bush's subconcious or even concious secreat motives. Another thing that has to do with 1984 is how big brother used propaganda like bush. Big brother had the pictures of enemy solders, bush had a far more cleverer way. He showed the twin towers in his campaign ad. Also don't anyone say taht 9/11 has anything to do with the war in Iraq. There is proof that bush wanted to go into Iraq before 9/11. Also don't say that bush went into Iraq to combat the eeeeeeeevilist place on earth, there are far, far more evil people than those in Iraq. For instance there is a country in Africa, I can't remember it's name right now, where thousands of people are being slaughtered coutinuously, and they even asked us for help, and we turned them down.


about all of these anti-clinton remarks saying that he did nothing against terrorists. Well, what do you think got us in this position in the first place, MESSING WITH THERE AFFAIRS. If we had just stayed out of them, like Clinton did, we would not have any terrorists.


AN EYE FOR AN EYE WILL MAKE THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND.

Oh dear Lord save us...

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by RoadDawg

Who'd of thunk that they took over a plane with Box cutters and zip ties. A pen is a very mighty weapon. A good sort of items found on a plane can be used as a weapon. I'm not gonna attempt it because #1 I'm not stupid and #2 I have absolutely No reason/will to do so. In case you haven't noticed pens can be just as sharp if not have something inside of them. Plus the fact that one kid managed to strategically place box cutters inside of planes to show the security isn't doing anything is a whole other story. Now I'm not saying that it's entirely possible to do it with just a pen but a pen will do some van damage. I'm not talking those cheap 89 cent pens either. Those would break before the skin. I'm talkint the expensive AT Cross/Waterman pens.

Know what Paradigm Shift is?

No one, and I mean NO ONE in this country that ever got on an airplane thought that a bunch of terrorists armed with box cutters would have flown those planes into buildings.

Everyone had the same basic view of highjacking. The terrorists take the plane over, and force the pilots to go some where, sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours, then get their money and disappear.

Anyone who says that we should have seen the vents of 9-11 as clearly as we do now, BEFORE it happened is FULL OF CRAP.

Back to the Paradigm Shift.

Now when som lunatic tries to take over the plane with a ball point pen, he get's his butt handed to him by every male on that plane.

It's already happened.

That's the shift in thinking post 9-11. No one is going to fly another plane into another building in this country armed with ANYTHING.

The passengers would tear them limb from limb.

And to sit there and type that nonsense about taking over a plane with a pencil is the height of ignorant stupidity.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by logamus

they locked that way prior to 9/11 too. they were just given extra reinforcements. if they cant be opened from the passenger compartment, how do the pilots get in?

Once the pilots are in there they lock the doors according to FAA regulations... At that point they are inaccessable from the passenger compartment.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


And to sit there and type that nonsense about taking over a plane with a pencil is the height of ignorant stupidity.

Its not a pencil its a BIC Pen Made in FRANCE

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Butterfingers


Its not a pencil its a BIC Pen Made in FRANCE

Then we have absolutely nothing to fear. That pen would give up the instant anyone made a threatening move with it.