Star Wars Episode 1-3, A LOST HOPE

[Steelrat]

For some reason, I can pull the fact that you said they were extremely horrible by your use of increasingly large font with the word "Terrible".

"Another idiot who can't bother to come up with a decent post...."

I hear that every time I criticize someone. Ironic how that works, hand in hand...You acuse me of not being able to accept the fact that you didn't like the movie, but YOU can't accept the fact that I don't like your opinion of the movie.

And quite obviously, you have to have been a member of the forums for longer than 2 months to be intelligent.

Why would you post your thoughts about the movie unless you wanted other people to talk about it?

Your entire post contradicts itself Steelrat. Blennidae, I salute you for a good comeback, and I see your reasoning. However, including things like Chewbacca was not intended for people who have been with the series their whole life. It was intended for the people who have never seen the movies before I believe...if you were to watch the movies from 1 to 6, and not know how anything was going to happen, it might be kind of confusing.

You insult me and criticize me as being another fanboy, and that wasnt a personal attack?

I thought it was terrible. If it had been absolutely horrible, I would have walked out.

Taken on their own, I feel Ep 1-3 were mediocre, at best. Taken as part of the series as a whole, they were very disappointing. I want to talk about it to get other viewpoints. Instead some people label me as a "fanboy" who does nothing but trash the new movies.

Did I see the original movies when they were released? Yes. Was there something almost magical about them? Yes, despite the unfortunate Ewok fiasco in Ep 6. Did the new ones generate the same feelings? No. Do some movies still generate those kinds of feelings for me? Yes, plenty. Just not 1-3. And believe me, it makes me very sad that they turned out that way. I feel the same way about Starship Troopers, which was always one of my favorite books, but was butchered when it came out at the movies. Decent eye candy, but not what it should have been.

And thats what I think of Ep 1-3. Decent eye candy, but not even close to what they should/could have been.

[Steelrat]

Duzzy, you have to admit that lots of people who watch Star Wars always have the attitude of, "The older ones were better, he ruined the new ones and they're utterly horrible".

If lots of people who watch Star Wars have that opinion, doesn't that tell you something?

[Steelrat]

you are exactly right. i am a HUGE sucker for star wars. they are good movies...search your feelings ryan, you know it to be true.

Hey, I'm a bigger sucker. I saw it before you, after all And I saw 1 and 2 before opening night at special screenings. Just don't let Lucas use his Jedi mind tricks on you. Remember what Obi-Wan said "The Force
can have a strong influence on the weak-minded."

[Steelrat]

As part of the first generation base of fans you have to realize things.
Before Return of the Jedi came out we took bets if Vader REALLY was Luke's father.
We saw the movies in theaters 10+ times for the most part.
Uh, yeah, the Slave Leia thing. We are sorry.

Dude, no way am I sorry for that. She was smokin'!

I am, however, very very sorry for the Ewoks.

[Eatem Alive]

Just don't let Lucas use his Jedi mind tricks on you. Remember what Obi-Wan said "The Forcecan have a strong influence on the weak-minded."

they're just movies. i am a big fan but they have no bearing on my life so much as to make me argue in deep discussions with others. i enjoy them for what they are...entertainment.

[adam_61550]

I know my reaction seems harsh, but after 20+ years and hundreds of millions of dollars, there is no excuse for doing this poorly. Peter Jackson took a creative but poorly written book series and turned them into magnificent movies.

Poorly written?!?! Have you read LOTR? As good a quality as the movies are, the books are far, far better.

[Alpha]

No offense at all.. But its a movie. If you get your panties in a knot from just a few subtle issues like that, your not going to have fun seeing it. You can pick apart any movie. Your supposed to laugh and say "Oh that chewbaka... He slays me."

[Steelrat]

they're just movies. i am a big fan but they have no bearing on my life so much as to make me argue in deep discussions with others. i enjoy them for what they are...entertainment.

OH SNAP! Et tu' Eatem?

[Steelrat]

Poorly written?!?! Have you read LOTR? As good a quality as the movies are, the books are far, far better.

Its just my personal opinion, but I think Tolkien was a poor writer. However, he was incredibly imaginative, which is why the books have had such an impact.

[Steelrat]

No offense at all.. But its a movie. If you get your panties in a knot from just a few subtle issues like that, your not going to have fun seeing it. You can pick apart any movie. Your supposed to laugh and say "Oh that chewbaka... He slays me."

The thing is, they put those very issues in there to appeal to hardcore fans. Unfortunately, since Lucas is well into his Howard Hughes phase, he seems to have little appreciation for what the fans were really looking for. It certainly wasn't Jar Jar Binks, an alien short-order cooks case of plumber's butt, or a whiney Darth Vader. Again, this is just MHO.

[Eatem Alive]

ok, i saw it today...liked it...hayden is still a bad actor...darth vader still kicks ***!

[Steelrat]

ok, i saw it today...liked it...hayden is still a bad actor...darth vader still kicks ***!

Seeing Vader, the Emporer, and Grand Moff Tarkin looking at the Death Star being built made me want to watch Ep 4 Darth is always awesome, but the whole "Noooooooooooo" thing actually made a lot of people in my theater laugh. I suspect that isnt the reaction Lucas was looking for.

I think Hayden got better. At least Lucas didn't make him act to whiny in this one.

[Vex]

I think the biggest thing that hurt the first two (Other than parts I didn't consider very cool and interesting like Anakin being conceived by Micro-Chlorine stuff. Can anyone say Jesus wannabe?) was the lack of real choices. A good movie keeps you guessing, you are never quite sure what the person will do and frankly I didn't feel that in Episodes I & II.

Why should there be a plot to keep you guessing--YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW THE STORY TURNS OUT!!

[Vex]

Okay, bear with me--long post ahead:
Here we go:
1. George Lucas wrote ALL of the Star Wars movies at the SAME TIME during the early '70s. He wrote them not as individual episodes, but as one long "Space Opera". If you think I'm wrong, do your research and prove me wrong! He then broke them down into 9 episodes and then re-re-vamped them to 6. (Sorry folks, but by the time he made ANH, he never intended on filming 9 episodes...) Also, don't you think it makes almost no sense that you're just "thrown" into a movie and don't know anything about the characters? Remember the mention of the Clone Wars in ANH? There were a lot of questions as to what the hell happened before ANH that leads up to all of the fighting, the Empire, who exactly were the Jedi Knights, and why Luke was so special. Also, A New Hope implies that there was hope previously--so what happened?
Lucas had an imposible time finding a studio to release Ep. 4: A New Hope (so named not because it was the fourth time he pitched it, but because it was that chapter in his saga--sorry oldsoldier, but that's a fact. ) Finally, and exec at Fox greenlighted him and he began production. Because Star Wars was such a huge hit (at the time it was the highest grossing movie ever!) that when it came time to film The Empire Strikes Back, Lucas took out a loan from a bank to finance the movie so that he could have total control and the rights to his movies. He bankrolled Jedi himself. He didn't want the studios to have the rights to his projects; his life.
This is all stuff that's on the bonus disc with the Original Trilogy DVDs--come on, people!!

2. C-3P0 and R2-D2 knowing each other: They are together in ANH, right? At the end of Ep. 3, Bail Organa orders Capt. Antilles (not Wedge--wouldn't have been born yet, or else be very young) to wipe 3P0's mind--thus, he doesn't remember anything prior to that (Anakin building him, relationship with Padme, etc.)--there's his excuse for not putting 2 and 2 together with Luke Skywalker's name sounding familiar.
R2-D2 pretty much belonged to Anakin during Episodes 1, 2 and 3, not Obi-Wan. R2 would not know that Anakin became Vader--how would he?
In ANH, Leia programs the droid with a message for Obi-Wan Kenobi, whom she knows about because of her father, whom he "served" in the Clone Wars. So they had to show Bail Organa in Episodes 2 and 3 for continuity. Now, R2 would know that he's supposed to find Obi-Wan, and could possibly know who he is, and give him a message. Obi-Wan on the other hand wouldn't necessarily remember one droid, from 20 years earlier, especially if he didn't interact with it a whole lot. Since it's 20 years later, there's also the possibility that R2's memory has also been wiped--it could happen.

3. Yoda knowing Chewie: What's wrong that? Wookiees live for over 200 years, and Yoda is 800, so where's the problem? It's not like Chewie had a huge role in the movie, or a very defining one for that matter. Yoda mentioned that he had a good relationship with the Wookiees, that's why he went to Kashyyyk. Chewie could have been a high-ranking warrior and that's why he was interacting with Yoda. Yoda went into seclusion, so Chewie could easily have forgotten about him. Plus, Chewie was in the movie for nostagia. It was nice to see an original character that every Star Wars fan should be familiar with. Plus, his involvement in the story is plausible, due to the fact that a campaign of the War was fought on Kashyyyk.

3. Yoda's fighting skills: The dude is an 800 year old Jedi--don't you think that his skills should surpass most? He's never dealt with a Sith Lord until Count Dooku (because they were "extinct" for over a 1,000 years.) And Dooku was not even close to the level of Sidious, so he gave Yoda a good run for his money in a battle of Force knowledge/manipulation. Plus, Yoda's a little old dude, he can only withstand so much...

4. Anakin vs. Mace: Anakin didn't kill Mace--I thought that was pretty obvious. He stopped Windu from killing Palpatine, albeit by slicing off his saber hand, thus allowing Palpatine to take advantage and fry him with Force lightning. Anakin was already confused by Palps. He was already being teased and baited with great power that could save Padme from death. If Palps were to die, then he would lose Padme. After Mace took a dive from umpteen stories up, Anakin couldn't believe what had just happened, so he was even more confused and therefore easily swayable. Palpatine had already earned his trust in the previous movie and they had a close relationship in this one. Anakin was hurt to find out that his mentor was the Sith Lord, but he was intrigued by the possibilty of having the power to save his wife. Palpatine played on Anakin's heart strings until they snapped. Once Anakin pledged himself to the Dark Side, for the purpose to save Padme, Palpatine had complete control over him. Anakin finally gave in to anger and fear.

5. Anakin and the Jedi Temple: The younglings weren't the only ones killed by Anakin. They were just the only ones "shown" so that we would get the feeling of how evil Anakin was to become. This was the most disturbing scene and I felt very sad during that one. Anakin was led to believe that the Jedi were his true enemies and that they needed to be dealt with. So of course he's got to kill the children, so that they don't grow to become Jedi and pose a threat. Besides, killing children is nothing new to him, he already slaughtered the Tusken Raider kids in Episode 2--remember? I actually was kind of hoping that they would show Anakin kill some Jedi--I was a little disappointed.

6. Anakin and Palpatine: Anakin is confused and lost. Palpatine knows this, knows his power potential, knows his loss, and plays on that. Nothing new here. I actually thought that Palpatine's revelation to Anakin about being a Sith Lord was flawlessly smooth, along with Ankakin's transition to the Darkside. Hurried? Maybe; but there was only 2 1/2 hours, so...

Overall. I felt this movie did a lot to tie up a lot of loose ends and open questions. They explain that Qui-Gon figured out how to live on in the Force and taught Yoda, who teaches Obi-Wan. They show how Vader got into the suit. They show that 3-P0's mind was ordered wiped. Bail Organa took Leia to Aleraan. Obi-Wan gave Luke to Beru and Owen on Tatooine.
In my opinion, mine only--I flame no one--I felt this was an excellent movie and an appropriate ending to a great story.

[Duzzy]

And oddly enough there was more to the movies than Anakin becoming Darth Vader...

And yes the fact that I knew the resolution did hurt it, but it didn't have to. Have you ever read a novel that starts out at the end and then leads up to it? Some of them are done very well and it doesn't bother the reader. This did bother me.

There is also a lot of "wasted" time. Why did we need Podracing? Why did we need Naboo? Why couldn't Jar Jar die in the first movie? Preferably in an opening battle scene... Why did Anakin have to come across as a whiney who had the mental maturity of a 12 yr old?

I think that if Lucas would have cut out a lot of stuff, and added more "explanation" it would have been even better. I think Episode III would be cool if it were only a few years before Episode IV and the plot was Vader hunting down the Jedi and it causing an inner conflict. And had some snippets of Luke and Leia growing up maybe? And the conflict between the rebellion and the "Empire". Episode II could have been about him having kids and becoming Vader and Episode I could have had him becoming a Jedi.

*Edit*

You posted in between my reply, so just so you know this is to the post where you quoted me. The second post isn't bad.