Va Tech shootings

[Ole Unka Phil]

Masses of college kids carrying guns, ummm yea, that could very well be the most ridiculous proposal I have heard in quite some time

Yea... you spent about as much time thinking that rediculous contribution up as you have one the subject matter at hand.

College kids eh? Do you know what the average age of a college kid is? In many campus settings its like 30 years old. Faculty and staff in the 50's. So since your trivializing their rights lets remember that acceptance to college does not mean giving up your rights.

Do you think anyone here is advocating that they be mandated to carry? Heavens no. Its about the right of responsible law abiding adults to protect themselves. And have a choice to protect themselves by the same means that the criminal intends to use. Its about choice. its about rights. Many will not feel the need nor will want too. It's their choice.

[bornl33t]

I think it's funny how fox is saying that he used hi caps and that's why this was so deadly. Because a high cap can hold 33 rounds. My high caps hold 12, a 9mm will hold what? 16? 33 rounds has to be a .22?

btw this story is ironicy, notice the second paragraph. "The shooting was rare in a country where handguns are strictly banned " Criminals still have them though

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266591,00.html

[Nick E]

and the next one, about the cho dude..bought his guns legally..oh sheet..

[Ole Unka Phil]

and the next one, about the cho dude..bought his guns legally..oh sheet..

Well its possible he did. Under the current BATFE form he may have lied on the section about prior mental heath diagnosis and treatment. Still don't know about that. But what would stop someone from lying? There is no data base for that and medical records are private.

But... his criminal record is clean. He had a couple of minor speeding tickets is all. So would have no reason to deny. Again... thats the Brady law stuff.

And of course there is a rule against guns on campus he broke. Not to mention that Murder has long been illegal... And of course all the other students that got shot did not break the no gun on campus rule... which is why none of them had a gun to fight back with... So I guess we need more rules?

[Dark Side]

And of course there is a rule against guns on campus he broke. Not to mention that Murder has long been illegal... And of course all the other students that got shot did not break the no gun on campus rule... which is why none of them had a gun to fight back with... So I guess we need more rules?

You can also look at the fact that in Washington D.C. it is illegal to have a handgun (by the local populace that is) yet it is in the top 5 for handgun related deaths in America.

[Lohman446]

Anyone who does nto beleive that there are holes in the current system of buying handguns is fooling themselves. That being said there are big holes in the legal buying of fertilizer too.

Very few people advocate everyone carrying. However, there is no reason that someone who is willing to go through the background check, demonstrate proficiency, and receive proper and ongoing training should be denied the right to carry.

[Ole Unka Phil]

again... most criminals don't buy them... not legaly anyway. FBI says that is the case. More than 80% of them are obtained illegaly.

The problem is not in the purchasing system... its the the Criminal system. No legal gun owner is not completely for enforcement and stiff penalty for use of a gun in a crime. You cannot legislate this. It won't work. This incident is perfect proof it does not work.

There are lots of people I would rather they did not carry. And... there are some that are not capable of carrying because it would be a liability to themselves.

[ricwhic414]

First they will never get rid of firearms. And even if they do ban them the same thing will happen when they tried to get rid of alcohol.

Second there is no defense or anything anyone could have done to prevent this situation. Honestly what would you do if someone is coming at you with a firearm (don't act all big and say o hell I would go kick that kids ***) because everyone knows that 99% of us would sit in the corner and beg for our lives. Now maybe a group could have went after him and stopped him.

I hate how the media keep asking about why didn't the police do this why didn't the police do that... The police did what they thought was best given the amount of information that they received.

All and all I think this was a horrible horrible thing. This kid was a time bomb waiting to explode. The only thing that could have change this was maybe better parenting, or maybe people that he came into contact with in his life were more nice to him. I don't know correct me if I'm wrong but that is the way I see it.

[SR_matt]

i love how everyone that is so pro allowing everyone to carry doesnt think about the whole situation as it happens.

ok shooter enters, u draw ur weapon, some one else walks up on the situation, pulls their gun but who do they shoot? you? the original shoter? both? they will have no idea who is bad and who is good. then once LEOs enter and they see some one with a weapon drawn they shoot , o wait it was some one trying to help o well.

you have just as many if not more problems with multiple people carrying, in a situation like that, than you would have if they were disarmed.

second the speed he entered with the chance of getting your weapon out intime would have been minimal.

no matter what this was going to go down and it wa going to be this bad, more control, less control it would have gone down and it would have been bad or worse.

im getting really tired of all these people that think being able to carry a weapon would fix all these damn problems cause it wont.

and i actualy support people being able to carry (now the whole 2nd ammendment thing i will dissagree with most of you on but i still think conseal carry by peopel that can get through the permit screenings and all that stuff is fine)

the more important thing is stopping people from getting to this point where they resort to these actions.

-matt

[IronCore]

...maybe people that he came into contact with in his life were more nice to him. I don't know correct me if I'm wrong but that is the way I see it.

amen to that.

how about giving everybody a tranquilizer gun, seems safer to me.

[Ole Unka Phil]

They did try and engage him and befriend him. He would have none of it. He had a reputation of not even responding to people trying to talk with him.

I love it how you assume you know how it would have gone down. Would there have been any less deaths had someone been able to get a shot at him and not been able to get him? Think about that... He killed himself only once he knew the police had just gotten in it is not believed. They heard the last shot.

He now is reported to have been stalking two other female students. And set a small fire. And he reportedly had a bomb threat letter found in his room similar to the two mailed earlier in the week. There were a lot of signals. But... he never quite crossed the line to get a record or get in jail or anything until he finaly snapped. But he was heading that way all the time...

The only way to have stopped him would have been a bullet it seems. Because he gave no one enough cause to lock him up before hand.

[Glickman]

i love how everyone that is so pro allowing everyone to carry doesnt think about the whole situation as it happens.

ok shooter enters, u draw ur weapon, some one else walks up on the situation, pulls their gun but who do they shoot? you? the original shoter? both? they will have no idea who is bad and who is good. then once LEOs enter and they see some one with a weapon drawn they shoot , o wait it was some one trying to help o well.

you have just as many if not more problems with multiple people carrying, in a situation like that, than you would have if they were disarmed.

by having a permit, and you deciding to draw your weapon you UNDERSTAND what risk you are putting yourself in.

you can argue about the logistics of how it MIGHT go down, but that obviously futile.

we see that there would be confusion, but obviously you know when you draw your weapon what risk you are in. and when the police show up, you are obviously not going to keep your weapon drawn.

second the speed he entered with the chance of getting your weapon out intime would have been minimal.

no matter what this was going to go down and it wa going to be this bad, more control, less control it would have gone down and it would have been bad or worse.

this would be wrong because he took the time to walk in, chain the doors, and line up the students, some in execution style.

we cant say what could have, or might've happend, but personally, i feel that if someone trained to step in, maybe that 30 could've been 25. wouldn't that have been worth it?

im getting really tired of all these people that think being able to carry a weapon would fix all these damn problems cause it wont.

and i actualy support people being able to carry (now the whole 2nd ammendment thing i will dissagree with most of you on but i still think conseal carry by peopel that can get through the permit screenings and all that stuff is fine)

the more important thing is stopping people from getting to this point where they resort to these actions.

from what the student have been saying, there was no stopping this kid. they TRIED befriending him and talking to him, but he would have none of it.


some people are special enough to want to risk their own safety for others in need, be them police, firefighters, or the 50 year old baker with a CCP. Either way, they deserve a salute for what they are willing to do

[SR_matt]

there wa no linin gup people execution style, from people that were in the classes they said he walked in shot the prof. then just started shooting everyone randomly, the kid wasnt thinking about how to kill people he was just shooting .

-matt

[Ole Unka Phil]

there wa no linin gup people execution style, from people that were in the classes they said he walked in shot the prof. then just started shooting everyone randomly, the kid wasnt thinking about how to kill people he was just shooting .

-matt

But he went in and out of four different rooms and a hallway. With time between for people to barracade and even escape out windows. Your reference is to what happened in one room. He went into at least four.

Here is an old account of the Bath School bombing for some reference. Oddly similar things. Wife killed, planning, irrational reasoning... You might find it interesting. These people exist we do know that. And its not just a "these days" sort of thing. Its a repetitive pattern.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/nyt520.txt

[geekwarrior]

sure, a gun might have helped in this instance. but this is pretty rare.


the worry is when there's people walking all over campus carrying guns. one loses they're cool, draws and kills someone.