So, you can buy a NEW Mini Now?

[SlartyBartFast]

Also, generally speaking, the faster you get the paintball up to speed the less air you use. This is because you have less volume to fill (all the area behind the paintball). The farther down the barrel is has to go, the more area you have to fill. The greater the area, the more air required to obtain the same pressure. And it is the pressure that accelerates the paintball.

That's not quite right. It depends on how the air is delivered.

If the dump chamber were simply opened (say there's no return spring and the bolt latches foprward), the required barrel length is a function of the initial pressure and the amount it has to expand such that the ball is travelling 300fps. Actually, the final speed would constrain both the required pressure and the required length if you wanted no losses/inefficiencies.

The question with the mag is that the bolt stays open and continues to vent after the ball has left the barrel. So, after the "ideal" length of a given pressure dumped behind the ball there's the issue of when lengthening the barrel stops providing adequate return (acceleration from the continued lower pressure flow through the bolt). The pressure effectively builds to a spike and then drops off. To best deliver air, the valve would ideally stop delivering air after the drop off.

The "volume to fill" argument is not entirely applicable to spool valves (except perhaps the pathetic continuously venting design of the original shocker) or 'perfect' dump chambers. It's only valid if you were trying to continuously feed air behind the ball. Or in cases where there is a mixture of processes occuring.

The annoying truth is that to get the ball up to speed as quickly as possible means HIGHER pressures delivered through the bolt in shorter bursts. Try and convinve the LP fanboys of that.

[JimmyBeam]

Now you're talking another ball game.

Is the problem the marker or the crappy fills?

For 1.5k to be a hopper of balls, What tank you using? A 30cu.in.?

no, crappy fills are part of going to the fields here. and your gun should be able to get the most out of any fill pressure you get. a hopper holds just less than 200 rounds. and my mag got right around 200 shots per ~1k in pressure. so ok, you got a little more than a hoppers worth off 1.5

if i had 1500 psi or less i didnt even attempt to play that game with my mag. i'd sit it out and go fill. kind of a waste to me. im much happier now. 1500 psi might will last me two games now. i like to shoot alot of paint. thats jsut me, but our recball games were anywhere from 10-30 people to a team. so not being able to rely on your gun to conserve air bothered me alot.

you guys are die hard, and nothing i can say is going to change your views. right on! more power to you. but i played with my mag for two years straight....every weekend. i loved it until i started realizing i was filling up 2 maybe 3 times more than everyone else on the field. it was then time for me to move on. which might not bother some people, you might have all day air within an arms reach. but from my home field to the fill station was about a 100 hundred yard walk which i got tired of doing 6 times a day.

this is my last post about this so i'll just say this. yes the mags are reliable and easy to maintain. but its not for me. i like to get more out of my fills, and love to be flexible about where i play. fix the air problem and I'll come back in a heartbeat. but for example, ask a AKA owner to give up thier case per fill effeciency and see what they say....effeciency, to me is a must. fill up and play with confidence that your not going to run out of air.

[SlartyBartFast]

and your gun should be able to get the most out of any fill pressure you get.

Sorry but that's rubbish. EVERY mechanical and electrical system has it's requirements. If you can't meet the requirements, don't use the equipment.

A race car needs high octane or methyl alcohol fuel. Don't complain if it doesn't perform with regular gas.

Is the HALO garbage because it can't work well with a 9v instead of 6AAs? Or that it loses performance before a Revy when supplied with new batteries?

But 200 rounds off of a 2500psi fill seems suspiciously/rediculously low. And trying to discuss the issue is pointless without knowing the SIZE of the tank.

You also seem to vacilate. if you're getting 200 shots per 1000psi, is that for pressure ABOVE 1000? or TOTAL pressure full? You get 700 shots from a 4500psi fill?

you guys are die hard, and nothing i can say is going to change your views. right on! more power to you. but i played with my mag for two years straight....every weekend. i loved it until i started realizing i was filling up 2 maybe 3 times more than everyone else on the field. it was then time for me to move on. which might not bother some people, you might have all day air within an arms reach. but from my home field to the fill station was about a 100 hundred yard walk which i got tired of doing 6 times a day.

this is my last post about this so i'll just say this. yes the mags are reliable and easy to maintain. but its not for me. i like to get more out of my fills, and love to be flexible about where i play. fix the air problem and I'll come back in a heartbeat. but for example, ask a AKA owner to give up thier case per fill effeciency and see what they say....effeciency, to me is a must. fill up and play with confidence that your not going to run out of air.

Don't think anyone is disagreeing with you entirely. Each product has its ups, its downs, and the target amrket it's trying to reach.

Mags don't fit the bill for people who want small tanks and to live with low pressure fills.

But to really discuss this all intelligently, I'd love to see data and tests. WARPIG finally standardised the hopper test, I'd like to see a standardised out-of-the-box shots per tank test.

[SlartyBartFast]

That's not quite right. It depends on how the air is delivered.

Hmm. We're both full of it.

If you accelerate the ball as quickly as possible, you waste more air.

Someone needs to model this in MATLAB or some pneumatics simulation software.....

[TAW]

Hitech yes higher pressure is more efficient, been proven before. The tough part is convincing people that its a good idea.

AGD

Hitech have you made a Hypermag yet?

[SlartyBartFast]

Hitech yes higher pressure is more efficient, been proven before. The tough part is convincing people that its a good idea.

AGD

I've challenged AGD in another thread when that was brought up. I tend to believe the statement. WHat I don't believe is TK's refusal to attempt to build such a marker.

If it's been proven, if ti works, it should be easy to show.

[Lohman446]

I've challenged AGD in another thread when that was brought up. I tend to believe the statement. WHat I don't believe is TK's refusal to attempt to build such a marker.

If it's been proven, if ti works, it should be easy to show.

I understand enough of the base physics to understand it works. The question then comes back to this. Say I accept, without numerical evidence, that mags are inneficcient to begin with - the question becomes how inefficient, is it 1500 shots out of a fill, 1000, etc. Even then a mags issue seems not to be with base efficiency but with poor fills and the bottom end... if you made a higher pressure mag it would only make this issue worse. How much efficiency would you gain? If you can tell me I can get a case from 3K to 1K I don't care that I bottom out at 1K, but if your only increasing my "efficiency" by 100 rounds, then I might care.

[SlartyBartFast]

Say I accept, without numerical evidence,

Isn't that the rub though? Show me the NUMBERS!

If you can't get good fills, Mags might not be a good choice for you. But that's not the marker's fault. Whether there's a marketing/sales issue that makes it a business problem for AGD that's something else.

But to put this thread back on topic:
How well does the NEW/OLD MiniMag run on CO2?

[Lohman446]

Isn't that the rub though? Show me the NUMBERS!

I can accept some things without numbers. For instance, say you tell me that a Volkswagon is heavier than a kite.. I don't need numbers to beleive you. I just accept it even though I'm sure, somewhere, theres some 2 ton kite that would prove me wrong

[Raven001]

What valve comes with the new Classic/Mini?

Is it the old stainless steele one?

[hitech]

Hitech have you made a Hypermag yet?

Nope. Haven't had a chance to try anything. Hell, I don't even have the warp & flatline combo mount I got from Luke completely installed yet! With the baby, my spare time is gone.

Someone should take a one piece barrel and tape up the holes and see what effect it has on a level 10 mag. Chrono it before and after taping the holes.

[hitech]

I've challenged AGD in another thread when that was brought up. I tend to believe the statement. WHat I don't believe is TK's refusal to attempt to build such a marker.

If it's been proven, if ti works, it should be easy to show.

Tom had already given up trying to convince paintball players that anything was better.

[TAW]

Someone should take a one piece barrel and tape up the holes and see what effect it has on a level 10 mag. Chrono it before and after taping the holes.

I have a Newer All American barrel with the tip that equals 12" and a 12" teardrop barrel. Both have the same bore size.

The AA barrel has an effective length of 6" and the TD is 8".

I gained a minimum 10 FPS useing the TD barrel. So to me two piece barrels are crap HYPE.

EDIT: I hit enter before I could say that Tom allready proved barrel length and paint/bore match along time ago and yet look how many two piece barrels are out there that are too short to be usefull.

[SlartyBartFast]

I gained a minimum 10 FPS useing the TD barrel. So to me two piece barrels are crap HYPE.

[hitech]

The AA barrel has an effective length of 6" and the TD is 8".

I gained a minimum 10 FPS useing the TD barrel. So to me two piece barrels are crap HYPE.

I'd REALLY like to see the difference between the 6 inch effective length and a 12 inch effective length on a level 10 'mag.