So, you can buy a NEW Mini Now?

[Target Practice]

Holy dissapearing posts batman!

I know, I know. Let me tell you, I didn't delete it. Nor did I get a PM of any kind. Oh well, I guess some people around here don't like the truth.

Quick, someone get a screenshot of this before the Masked Delete-er strikes again!

[Lohman446]

And another little thing that is starting to piss me off. If you decide that you want to come here and bash Mags, your post will be deleted. I will do it personally. This is a mag forum for mag owners and other gun owners alike. We dont bash other guns around here so neither will any of you bash mags. Take it to your "other " forums and do it there. If you haven't already realized what is going on, there are new owners at AGD and they deserve the same help from all of us to keep them rolling along. Its a tough enough market out there without having retards bashing your products on you own damn forum.

I need to preface. I have great respect for AGD, for this forum, and for the moderators that deal with this forum for little to nothing.

That being said, is this a new rule on these forums? I can voice my opinion as long as I do so respectfully, and it is not negative towards mags or AGD? I have voiced a lot of negative opinions about mags in the past, I would like to think I have done so respectfully and in a well reasoned manner. Is this no longer acceptable? Just trying to understand the rules here.

[GT]

Holy dissapearing posts batman!

So what are we *****ing about today?

I am glad to see this is still here. Lets all agree that GT rules.

[Target Practice]

Mine was better. But hey, you get to say it, but not me.

*cough*

[Tunaman]

If you think have a way to bash mags or agd respectfully or tastefully on this forum well then go ahead and try. If you dont like the Product line that AGD has to offer then don't buy it. You can go to the owners group of your liking and have fun there.

[Lohman446]

If you think have a way to bash mags or agd respectfully or tastefully on this forum well then go ahead and try. If you dont like the Product line that AGD has to offer then don't buy it. You can go to the owners group of your liking and have fun there.

Pointing out issues is different than bashing a marker. Mags could ahve better efficiency, I think mags should have had eyes, I think there are a lot of things taht could have been changed. Pointing out negatives need not be bashing. Hiding from them leads to... well nothing new.

[JimmyBeam]

its almost like an insecurity issue. people are aware that mags are ancient relics, and they just havent come to terms with it yet. and thats not bashing. its the truth. besides cosmetics, there really hasnt been anything done to improve the valve. in the past few years. and if the new owners want to keep it that way, well what do they expect from everyone? how long do they think they will continue to sell?

[SlartyBartFast]

people are aware that mags are ancient relics,

So? What "new' development is ABSOLUTELY necessary to paintball?

The "latest-and-greatest" is often just cosmetic these days or provides negligible advantage.

Saying they're relics IS bashing.

Saying they're inefficient or slow is complaining.

Saying they NEED eyes is opinion.

Discussing ideas and alternatives calmly, impersonally, and positively. THAT's constructive criticism.

As for disappearing posts, well I missed it.

But it probably wasn't the TRUTH. Probably a big ol' helping og opinionation. Usually the first sign is that the transgressor defends their actions with "Guess they can't handle the truth." instead of perhaps moderating their opinion to civilised discussion.

As for the original intent of this thread, GET OVER IT FOR #####(insert deity) SAKE!

Minimags sell well used. Why shouldn'y AGD capitalise on that? The direct from manufacturer price is ALWAYS the worst price to buy at in a sane and equitable marketplace.

If you don't like the price, shop elsewhere. If you don't like the marker shut up already and just don't buy one. If it's a bad business decision AGD will learn soon enough.

[Tunaman]

its almost like an insecurity issue. people are aware that mags are ancient relics, and they just havent come to terms with it yet. and thats not bashing. its the truth. besides cosmetics, there really hasnt been anything done to improve the valve. in the past few years. and if the new owners want to keep it that way, well what do they expect from everyone? how long do they think they will continue to sell?

Improve the valve to what state? The valve has been PROVEN to be the fastest recharging valve in the industry without shootdown bar none. If anyone can prove otherwise, please feel free to post the data. You will be looking for that data till the cows come home. They may be based off an old design, but that design still hasn't been beaten yet...by anyone. Apparently you are easily drawn to the hype. Wanna buy a bridge?

[hitech]

Improve the valve to what state?

Increase the efficiency (eliminate the wasted air).

[JimmyBeam]

Improve the valve to what state? The valve has been PROVEN to be the fastest recharging valve in the industry without shootdown bar none. If anyone can prove otherwise, please feel free to post the data. You will be looking for that data till the cows come home. They may be based off an old design, but that design still hasn't been beaten yet...by anyone. Apparently you are easily drawn to the hype. Wanna buy a bridge?

so it has the fastest recharge rate.....if your going to actually be shooting 26 bps or whatever it is, you could probably sit there and watch your tank pressure haul butt down to 1k. and we all know mags dont like the tank to be < 1k.

look tuna, i loved my mag, but i also love to play out in the desert where there is no all day air. and me and two friends share a scuba, and a gas hog just doesnt cut it. why should i be limited to the time i can spend out there playing becasue my mag sucks air down? it served its purpose well....but now i can literally play the entire day and be confident that we wont run out of air.

your a trooper, i'll give you that, but instead of defending obvious flaws, why doesnt someone try to improve or fix them? thats what gets me the most about AGD. i dont want to say they dont care anymore, but its like they gave up. sure anyone can produce bodies, but why not redesign the heart of the mag, its valve. toms gone now, and I havent heard anything from the new owners regarding any innovations. and as long as mags continue to waste air (and yes when your 20 miles from town air becomes as precious as paint) i wont be playing with one. sure i miss the feel and look of my mag, but numbers, or shots in this situation do make all the diference for me.

[Tunaman]

Increase the efficiency (eliminate the wasted air).

The inherent design of this valve does waste a LITTLE air. There was not enough of an improvement that could have been made to justifying changing the entire design for a few saved PSI. Thats just the way it is. Polishing any and all metal to metal and metal to urethane contact surfaces does improve the effiency a LITTLE, but the related costs do not justify changing the design. You can't have it all at the same time. In an imaginary world we would all like to to have the fastest AND most efficient valve in our markers but right NOW...TODAY...that's all we have Man! Take it for what it is! Complaining and yapping and crying and whining that it sucks...its a relic...etc. is NOT gonna make it any better! Constructive criticism is all fine and good, but Tom listened to that and fixed most of EVERYTHING that people complained about over the last few years. There isn't anything more worth fixing! The design is tried, trued, and DONE! WHY are people STILL complaining? Give the Guy some credit for Petes sake! SHOW ME A BETTER ONE AND I WILL SELL AND FIX THOSE INSTEAD! SHOW ME A BETTER ONE!!!!!!!!!!
These posts is not directed at any person directly, it's just that I don't see where people are coming from. I am very angry about the people who feel the need to come here and post negative sentiments about the Company and the products they make. Is it really necessary anymore? Aren't we all above that?

How would the Tippman Owners group feel if I was to go over there and start bashing them? What if i was to go over there and start picking their guns apart? Is the Tippman a relic too?
Is the spool valve a relic? Are Palmers' guns relics? Are revvies no good anymore either? Is everything but the latest, shiniest, and electronically- modified- to- cheat paintball guns no good anymore? Is paintball still fun for you or do you wind up in a shouting match with someone everytime you play? Please feel free to ask yourself these questions.

[hitech]

Easier said than done

I recall Tom stating that he worked on this issue, and couldnt come up with more than ~10% savings. Not enough for a re-design.

I just cant seem to find where he said it...

Yes it is! And I remember Tom saying that. I have three new ideas, but two of them are unlikely to be tested.

I don't know if you read the telescoping power tube idea, but that has promise.

The other is shifting the valve back an 1/8 inch or so (and extending the bolt by the same) to hopefully allow the air to vent from the dump chamber faster. That would increase the behind the ball pressure and should allow a lower chamber pressure to achieve the same velocity.

The third is a longer effective length barrel. You don't have a cocker threaded barrel with a 12+ inch effective length you'd like to sell me cheap, do you?

[Tunaman]

so it has the fastest recharge rate.....if your going to actually be shooting 26 bps or whatever it is, you could probably sit there and watch your tank pressure haul butt down to 1k. and we all know mags dont like the tank to be < 1k.

look tuna, i loved my mag, but i also love to play out in the desert where there is no all day air. and me and two friends share a scuba, and a gas hog just doesnt cut it. why should i be limited to the time i can spend out there playing becasue my mag sucks air down? it served its purpose well....but now i can literally play the entire day and be confident that we wont run out of air.

your a trooper, i'll give you that, but instead of defending obvious flaws, why doesnt someone try to improve or fix them? thats what gets me the most about AGD. i dont want to say they dont care anymore, but its like they gave up. sure anyone can produce bodies, but why not redesign the heart of the mag, its valve. toms gone now, and I havent heard anything from the new owners regarding any innovations. and as long as mags continue to waste air (and yes when your 20 miles from town air becomes as precious as paint) i wont be playing with one. sure i miss the feel and look of my mag, but numbers, or shots in this situation do make all the diference for me.

Look Man. I certainly understand your position. Being out there with not enough air certainly sucks. But how about taking into consideration the APPLICATION you are using it for? Why take the mag out there when you know you might run out of air? Maybe bringing a more efficent gun will suit your needs better and save the Mag for times of lesser demand. Maybe your Mag is not good for what you need it for. The Mag won't do it all for you. Nobody ever said it could. Its just one of MANY great paintball guns on the market. We are trying to hang on to that fact. Ya wit us? or agin us?

[hitech]

Remember, I shoot an eMag. I don't own a non-mag semi. I still think the positives outweigh the negatives. However, I can see the negative. It needs to be more efficient. I just wish I had the resources to test out a few theories.