** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[secretweaponevan]

I have an RT ULE mag w/ ULT. I've been using the gold spring because the medium spring does not want to work w/ any carrier/shim setup I put in.

Anyway, gold spring, 1 shim, and 1.5 carrier (largest that does not leak) has been working the best, but is a little rough on paint. It has been chopping. I figured since the middle spring won't even work, I can try cutting down the longest spring. I cut it down so it is a little bit longer than the short and shorter than the middle spring to try to get it a little softer on paint. I shot with this spring and the same shim/carrier combo tonight and I chopped a ball. So I tried going down a carrier size because I read that you can really fine tune by going down a carrier while risking bolt stick (info from the level 10 disk). Now, my cut spring, 1 shim, 1.0 carrier is soft enough on paint, but I what will I risk by using a smaller carrier? I let it rest for about 30 minutes and when I shot again it didn't stick at all and I haven't experienced any bolt stick, but I want to check if this is my only option and if there's a problem with it. I feel like I should be able to get the middle spring in there somehow because right now when I do, every other shot is good, but the inbetween shots don't reset fully and are just little half attempts at a shot. Help would be greatly appreciated.

All you are risking is bolt stick.

By "a little rough on paint" with the short spring, do you mean you were chopping? If so, was the paint brittle?
Your best spring setup will be the spring that allows the marker to cycle fully within 20fps below your desired velocity, so trimming your longest spring sounds like your solution.

[commando7]

All you are risking is bolt stick.

By "a little rough on paint" with the short spring, do you mean you were chopping? If so, was the paint brittle?
Your best spring setup will be the spring that allows the marker to cycle fully within 20fps below your desired velocity, so trimming your longest spring sounds like your solution.

Okay, I just want to make sure that was the way to go. It's not sticking so I shouldn't have any velocity problems or efficiency problems playing with that way, correct?

[Poon985]

LX10 help

I installed my level 10 last year and I thought I got it working properly and set it aside. I haven't played with it in a game since yesterday. I Shot a few test rounds and it was fine, at the field when I shot it the bolt kept sticking and wouldn't shoot. I oiled it all up and it seemed to work fine for the rest of the day. After awhile though the bolt started sticking again and it would drop paint out of the end of the barrel. I cleaned it that night and aired it up and it leaked out the barrel real bad, it would stop if I pushed in on the barrel. I put in the next smaller carrier and it stopped the leak, but I am worried that it might be too tight, the other one wasn't loose, but was barley on the end of the bolt. Also what should my lowest PSI for operation be, I thought I remember it being real low on mags, but it was short stroking and runnign out of air around 800psi, is that normal for a LX10 valve. I was getting furstrated and almost debating ptting the LX7 back on, so any information would e great.

[secretweaponevan]

Okay, I just want to make sure that was the way to go. It's not sticking so I shouldn't have any velocity problems or efficiency problems playing with that way, correct?

You'll be fine, as long as you keep her oiled. You might need to oil mid-day if you have it tuned at the threshold.

[secretweaponevan]

I...

I answered your post in the main body of the tech forum before seeing it here.

[athomas]

I have an RT ULE mag w/ ULT. I've been using the gold spring because the medium spring does not want to work w/ any carrier/shim setup I put in.

Anyway, gold spring, 1 shim, and 1.5 carrier (largest that does not leak) has been working the best, but is a little rough on paint. It has been chopping. I figured since the middle spring won't even work, I can try cutting down the longest spring. I cut it down so it is a little bit longer than the short and shorter than the middle spring to try to get it a little softer on paint. I shot with this spring and the same shim/carrier combo tonight and I chopped a ball. So I tried going down a carrier size because I read that you can really fine tune by going down a carrier while risking bolt stick (info from the level 10 disk). Now, my cut spring, 1 shim, 1.0 carrier is soft enough on paint, but I what will I risk by using a smaller carrier? I let it rest for about 30 minutes and when I shot again it didn't stick at all and I haven't experienced any bolt stick, but I want to check if this is my only option and if there's a problem with it. I feel like I should be able to get the middle spring in there somehow because right now when I do, every other shot is good, but the inbetween shots don't reset fully and are just little half attempts at a shot. Help would be greatly appreciated.

It was once thought that tightening up the carrier was a good way to fine tune the level 10 bolt, but it has since been found that you get more reliable operation by always using the largest carrier that doesn't leak. If you need to really fine tune the operation, then cutting down the longest spring is the best way to do that. Don't forget to remove the shims when checking for carrier leaks and operation. Once you get the mag running smoothly, then add shims to change how far the bolt has to travel before it vents air. Alot of us don't use any shims in our setups and have never had issues. You only need shims if the bolt stops on a breach blockage and won't vent to reset.

If you crank the velocity up, you can't get the red middle spring to work?

If the in between shots don't properly reset, then you need a larger carrier.

[athomas]

I installed my level 10 last year and I thought I got it working properly and set it aside. I haven't played with it in a game since yesterday. I Shot a few test rounds and it was fine, at the field when I shot it the bolt kept sticking and wouldn't shoot. I oiled it all up and it seemed to work fine for the rest of the day. After awhile though the bolt started sticking again and it would drop paint out of the end of the barrel. I cleaned it that night and aired it up and it leaked out the barrel real bad, it would stop if I pushed in on the barrel. I put in the next smaller carrier and it stopped the leak, but I am worried that it might be too tight, the other one wasn't loose, but was barley on the end of the bolt. Also what should my lowest PSI for operation be, I thought I remember it being real low on mags, but it was short stroking and runnign out of air around 800psi, is that normal for a LX10 valve. I was getting furstrated and almost debating ptting the LX7 back on, so any information would e great.

You are experiencing bolt stick. You need to go up a carrier size. Remove the shims when doing this to eliminate the chances of getting a shim induced leak that could be confused with a carrier leak.

Some mags can have recharge problems below 800 psi depending on the regulator on the bottle. The real pressure may actually be below 800psi plus with air line restrictions, the air getting to the valve could be slowed down at the lower pressure output.

[commando7]

It was once thought that tightening up the carrier was a good way to fine tune the level 10 bolt, but it has since been found that you get more reliable operation by always using the largest carrier that doesn't leak. If you need to really fine tune the operation, then cutting down the longest spring is the best way to do that. Don't forget to remove the shims when checking for carrier leaks and operation. Once you get the mag running smoothly, then add shims to change how far the bolt has to travel before it vents air. Alot of us don't use any shims in our setups and have never had issues. You only need shims if the bolt stops on a breach blockage and won't vent to reset.

If you crank the velocity up, you can't get the red middle spring to work?

If the in between shots don't properly reset, then you need a larger carrier.

Okay, I have been working this afternoon to try to get the middle spring working. Every couple shots don't properly reset with 1.5 carrier, however the 2.0 carrier leaks. Suggestions? When I cut the long spring it came out only slightly longer than the short spring. My next move was gonna be to slowly start trimming my red spring down until it works and order another one in case I ever can use it.

[secretweaponevan]

Okay, I have been working this afternoon to try to get the middle spring working. Every couple shots don't properly reset with 1.5 carrier, however the 2.0 carrier leaks. Suggestions? When I cut the long spring it came out only slightly longer than the short spring. My next move was gonna be to slowly start trimming my red spring down until it works and order another one in case I ever can use it.

1.5 carrier is the right size then.

Doesn't properly reset after encountering a jam, or just won't reset?

If won't reset after a jam, add a shim at a time until it resets reliably.

If it just won't reset, it sounds like too weak a bolt spring for the velocity you are currently set at.

[athomas]

Okay, I have been working this afternoon to try to get the middle spring working. Every couple shots don't properly reset with 1.5 carrier, however the 2.0 carrier leaks. Suggestions? When I cut the long spring it came out only slightly longer than the short spring. My next move was gonna be to slowly start trimming my red spring down until it works and order another one in case I ever can use it.

Leaking and resetting have nothing to do with the springs. Springs only allow you to fine tune the amount of antichop ability. They can compensate for a problem sometimes, but the problem will still be there. You are always best to fix the actual problem.

If it vents but doesn't reset with the 1.5, then the carrier is too tight. If the 2.0 leaks, then there are other issues. Maybe the white carrier oring is defective, or maybe the sear is worn abit. A worn sear exhibits the same symptoms as too many shims, being that the bolt vent hole sits too close to the carrier oring which causes a leak under normal tightness.

Are you sure all the problems are with the level 10 bolt and not the ULT? An improper tuned ULT can cause symptoms similar to those of the level 10.

I wouldn't worry about shims at this time. Shims only correct problems arizing from a breach blockage that allows the bolt to move forward but not far enough to allow the bolt to vent the excessive chamber air and reset. You aren't getting a breach block without venting so shims won't correct your problem. If the bolt vents or coughs, you don't need shims.

[finnmanpa]

troubleshooting terminology

Hey,

I help alot of my teamates with their new Mags. (5 converts and counting)

My question is about what to call 2 common issues that can occur.

--The first is the bolt not resetting after a breach blockage.

--The second is the gun is aired up, the trigger is pressurized when oulled, but the gun just won't fire.

Which one of these is called bolt stick, and then what's the other one called? I'm getting tired of trying to figure out what my friends always mean.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

[athomas]

Hey,

I help alot of my teamates with their new Mags. (5 converts and counting)

My question is about what to call 2 common issues that can occur.

--The first is the bolt not resetting after a breach blockage.

--The second is the gun is aired up, the trigger is pressurized when oulled, but the gun just won't fire.

Which one of these is called bolt stick, and then what's the other one called? I'm getting tired of trying to figure out what my friends always mean.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

1st: If the bolt vents but doesn't reset, then that is bolt stick. If the bolt does not vent but does not reset to allow the sear to reset, then you need to add a shim or two. The latter rarely happens.

2nd: This is just a lack of chamber pressure. There is no name for it. Turn up the velocity. Your operating velocity should be about 20fps above the lowest setting that the mag will fire. If that value is too high, then you need to use a lighter/shorter bolt spring to allow the mag chamber pressure to be set to a lower value.

[Elemental]

Hey, my lvl10 is tuned pretty well (I can stick my finger or a rolled up piece of paper in there and it works), but it still feels like its a little too hard on paint. I haven't really had time to do the research yet, but do any of ya'll have any suggestions to make it a little easier on paint?

Thanks.

[athomas]

Hey, my lvl10 is tuned pretty well (I can stick my finger or a rolled up piece of paper in there and it works), but it still feels like its a little too hard on paint. I haven't really had time to do the research yet, but do any of ya'll have any suggestions to make it a little easier on paint?

Thanks.

If it works on a piece of paper, then it will protect your paint. The level 10 only works in the first 1/4" of movement. That is where the chop happens. If you hold something in the breach farther than 1/4" in front of the bolt, then it will hit hard.

If you want to make the level 10 easier on paint, use the next stiffer bolt spring.

[jr50hockey]

stumped

just got my micro back from AGD...it had :
* ule trigger kit installed
*x-valve with level 10 installed
settings : x-valve: gold spring,carrier #1, 3 shims...
ule: no shims

problem is sometimes when gun fired...trigger goes dead and it looks like the bolt is not returning back all the way...if i look through the ball feed i can see the leading edge of the bolt sticking outward slightly.
Now...is it a level 10 problem or ule problem?
using a pure energy 3000 psi 48 cu tank..hoping to fix this on my own...live in canada and really dont wanta have to ship it back to roman