BlackVCG's ULT Thread

[the electrician]

I've been testing different things to see what is possible for improving the standard valve trigger pull. I've been using a modified RT on/off.

but the reactivity created, kicks the trigger back only about half way. the reduced shaft of the bottom of the on/off pin does not consistently return the trigger when it has to work against the wieght of your finger. this will end up causing accelerated bolt and sear wear.

I do have a better understanding of how the shims in the ULT work. normally, the on/off is approx. .555" long and the hole in the valve body where it goes is approx. .590" deep with the o-rings in it. when the the gun is pressurized, the o-rings and the on/off are pushed down by the air pressure until the on/off is stopped by the body.
this means that the pin can go up into the o-rings way past the point of sealing.

with the ULT, shims lengthen the on/off so that you can make the o-rings stay in place. this holds them up higher. so that the sear does not push the pin way past the point of sealing. instead it can be made so that the pin just seals. thus increasing the recharge rate to it's maximum point.

with the homemade e-mag, http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hreadid=125891

I've been using the modified RT on/off along with a quad o-ring for the on/off top o-ring and a soft buna o-ring for th e small o-ring inside the on/off. by using lvl10 shims with it, I've been able to increase the recharge rate to the point where the standard valve can do 18 bps, without drop-off. the quad o-ring definitely helps. it makes it possible for the pin to open to a larger area of flow, faster, because the o-ring seal is closer to the edge of the o-ring.

the modified RT on/off works well with the e-mag mod because the pin does not have to push back and return the trigger. it does not feel the wieght of you fingers. it also makes it possible to use much less force to actuate the sear. by fine tunning the on/off a high rate of fire is attainable even when using a lvl 10 that slows the bolt down and uses more air.

on a side note, after trying quad o-rings on the the lvl 10, I'd say they don't realy help any more than using plain buna-n o-rings.

[SpdElemts]

Just wondering what does that got to do with a ULT?
Anyways your custom electro grip is bada**. Got stuff man..

[the electrician]

I knew somebody was going to say that.
sorry, I went off topic.

I'm still interested in the size of the ULT on/off pin if anybody has one and some calipers....

[SpdElemts]

Hah i wasnt trying to be rude or anything. Um when i get back home ill measure the size of the pin for yah. I should get home around 10 or 11 PM

[the electrician]

man that would be great SpeedElemts.

I'm trying to whip up an idea for a lighter trigger for all those standard valve users out there. (something that doesn't involve electronics or heavy modification)

thanks.

[mountainbob84]

ULT on A CLassic any suggestions Silent Death?

THis is mostly pointed at silent Death. YOu said that you are running an ULT on a Mag Classic, I too HAve a ULT and a Classic but seem to be having a good bit of difficulty w/ them together. With the ULT in I can shoot about once and then it takes any where from a 1/2 second to five seconds for my trigger to pop back during which time it hisses unmercifully. WTHeck is going on? did you have this problem? if so how did you fix it? I really want this triger but don't really want to buy just an X-Valve (poor college student) can you help me out? My setup in full is a modified bench mark trigger frame (was single now double, filed out so that the sear rod type thing could fit, trigger stop screw installed) Classic valve, LX, an ULE, and of course HPA (800psi preset Centerflag reg. And no NAYSAYERS, I know it is not a recomended setup, but I'm looking for ways to make it work not suggestions to just get an RT.

P.S. does anyone know when AGD's going to be getting some more of those new Custom RT's in stock anyway?

[Matches]

mountainbob84
Im using a standard Minimag AIR valve, with a 6 hole mod in the back.
850 PSI preset.
LX bolt with 2 shims & medium spring.
ULT with 4 standard shims & 2 LX shims.
I put about 1000 balls through it on the weekend and two things i noticed was; When you dry fire the marker at a rapid pace it will allways 'chuff' or short stroke. As soon as i was playing with a full hopper it did not miss a beat.
The second problem i encountered was a soon as the air system went below 850 psi it would not reacharge propely and started short stroking again. (This isnt a real problem for me as i have a 4500 psi bottle.)
As mentioned through the post you have to oil the hell out of it and the ULT does require some breaking in.

[Matches]

Just a word of warning for anybody using a ULT & a level-10 in a classic AIR valve.
I finished using my marker last night and was pulling it apart to clean and oil it. (I had allso removed the air bottle, bottom line and all the hoses from the marker.)
My level 10 and ULT both have a very snug fit with the o-rings being used and as i found out shortly after, this leaves a partial air charge in the front part of the reg. On dis-assembly the on/off valve blew out of the reg at high velocity and smacked me in the head, then bounce off the roof and into the garage door.
Im am now sporting a 1/2 inch gash across my forhead and im lucky it didnt blind me in one eye.
NOTE FOR FUTURE: allways use eye protection when using compressed air.
Ive never encountered this problem before and ive been using automags for the past 10 years.
P.S. If you think this is piss funny, then you should have been there, my girlfriend allmost wet herself laughing too.

[BagelBoy2004]

Ask TK about this. I thought that when you pull the trigger to remove the valve from the rail and z-groove, all of the air should be discharged safely.

[Matches]

Just an update on the problem with using the LX and the ULT in a Classic Valve;
I was at a Tournament on the weekend and the same problem occured with another teams auto-mag but this time the ULT on-off hit him directly in the eye. He has been taken to the hospital to see an eye specialist, as his eye had internal bleeding behind the retina.
Please use caution in the future.

[Dueydog]

You should tell AGD about this so they can post a warning on site!

Originally posted by Matches
Just an update on the problem with using the LX and the ULT in a Classic Valve;
I was at a Tournament on the weekend and the same problem occured with another teams auto-mag but this time the ULT on-off hit him directly in the eye. He has been taken to the hospital to see an eye specialist, as his eye had internal bleeding behind the retina.
Please use caution in the future.

[Chowee21]

???

ok, on my ult kit, i had the center blakc oring and another oring left over on the kit, do i need to use the black oring for the ULT to work and where do i put it if i do

[BlackVCG]

It goes inbetween the two halves of the ULT. Unscrew the ULT by pulling on both halves and unscrewing them from each other. Look inbetween the two halves to see if you have the small o-ring there. If there's already one in there, the other one is just a backup o-ring.

[chubb]

hey when u stated in the 1st post about the minnimag regular vavles gettign short stroked realy easaly umm how fast do u have to go to do that cuz i would like to have a cheaper way to lighten my mag untilll i get that new non electro

[MagmanLee]

This really isn't a bad problem but my first shot out of a stream seams to be slow. I will pull the trigger and the gun will fire a moment later. The rest of the follow up shots don't have this problem.