Ya know, I am about "over it".....

[mostpeople]

Kevin rayman was there from the beginning

[Shirow]

I don't really understand the point of this thread. You have just as much right to like Smart Parts as anyone does to hate them. Me? I never liked SP even before the whole patent debacle - I found their advertising pretty distasteful and so I never bought a single SP product anyway. After the whole patent ordeal? Just sealed the deal.

I'll never buy a Smart Parts item and if anyone ever asks me what I think of them I'll answer honestly. If you don't like the fact that people don't like Smart Parts.. well.. that sucks for you, I guess.

[breg]

punkncat - I have to say that the opening post of this thread was probably one of the most mature things written in a public forum that does not handle classical music as it main topic. I smiled when I read it. Mostly because I knew that many knee jerk reactionary anti SP zombie heads exploded a la "Scanners" upon reading it. Thank you, with those exploding heads the gene pool got a little deeper.

Ok, now for my two cents:

No, I do not agree with the bussines tactics that Smart Parts has employed. But, much like Wal-Mart is might be an unaviodable evil for those of us who are forced to do things like pay car insurance, rent, taxes, utilities, phones bills etc. See, I am pushing thirty. The folks stopped bankrolling me long, long ago. So, yes when I was in high school it was easy to take money I made and buy the uber expensive items. I mean, c'mon what was rent, utilities, or insurance? Now that I am older sometimes cheaper is not so much a bad thing. I've recently been looking at getting back into paintball and have been leaning towards SP because I can get a shocker for about half of what I would pay for an angel. Not that I would not rather have an angel, but money talks.
But, by and large, we are a community of pubescent and postpubescent males and a few females. What anyone chooses to spent money is not your bussiness, but rather their own. If they want to post pics and show off their new toy, and if you do not have anything positive to say or an actual earnest question to ask... leave it be. Just smile to yourself.
I remember when this whole thing went down... someone made a sig pic that showed the SP crosshairs morphing into a swastika. That kind of disturbed me. Made these forums look like some sort of awful white pride garbage dump.
But I digress...
Here is the absoltue bottom line:
Most of YOU would have done the same thing SP has done. I know that I would have if I could have gotten away with it. Ensure the life of my company for years, make more money, and put competetors out of business. Is it sneaky, underhanded, and downright mean? Yup. Bear that in mind next time your mom takes you to Wal-Mart to buy underwear. But, let's not forget that millions of dollars are at stake and that every company has the over all goal of making money. Do you know what the companys that did not put profit near the top are called? "Bankrupt."
Not that I do not like AGD, but I am in the market for an electro... and they just do not make one anymore, and the Shocker is the best thing in my price range. Sorry but facts are facts.
Welcome to everyday life, you can find your apron and cap in the office, and remember that the new sandiwch came out today so push the combo.

[robertsr1811]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart either.

You're voting with your wallet. So am I.

[Shirow]

Here is the absoltue bottom line:
Most of YOU would have done the same thing SP has done. I know that I would have if I could have gotten away with it. Ensure the life of my company for years, make more money, and put competetors out of business. Is it sneaky, underhanded, and downright mean? Yup. Bear that in mind next time your mom takes you to Wal-Mart to buy underwear. But, let's not forget that millions of dollars are at stake and that every company has the over all goal of making money. Do you know what the companys that did not put profit near the top are called? "Bankrupt."
Not that I do not like AGD, but I am in the market for an electro... and they just do not make one anymore, and the Shocker is the best thing in my price range. Sorry but facts are facts.
Welcome to everyday life, you can find your apron and cap in the office, and remember that the new sandiwch came out today so push the combo.

That's a bit of a leap. You might have done it. I wouldn't have. There are many, many companies out there that don't function in this way. This is still a fairly small industry and they knew full well the outcome of their actions.

If you want to buy a Shocker, that's fine - you don't have to justify it by insinuating that everyone would be a patent troll if they had the opportunity.

Do you know what the companys that did not put profit near the top are called? "Bankrupt."

Do you know what companies are called that exploit others in order to make money? Unscrupulous. There are plenty of successful companies that make a lot of money because they come out with good products that meet needs in the market better than others do. E.g., Google.

Then, there are others that make money because they sue other companies and exploit patents to put other companies out of business.

Also, your statement about being 30 and not getting money from your Mom - I think you'll probably find a large population of this forum is in the same kind of situation. I've been working for the same large company for the last 10 years and I'm fully aware of the world of business. However, one of the internal tenets that my company preaches (and practices) is 'Integrity' and 'Community'. They are still able to make a huge amount of money.

[SR_matt]

with the whole thing about SP making the best bang for your buck right now, just because you can buy something that does X at a lower price doesnt mean it will continue to do X. i can go buy a cheap knife for 10-25 bucks but it will lose it edge, chip, bend, or break a lot more easily than a knife i pay 40-60 for. you can buy and ion or shocker or what ever, ya its cheaper but the design might not lend it self to working for extended periods of time.

at this point the need for electros is starting to fade away since some of the tourney series have even gone down to 12.5 bps limits and with the ULT especially if you tune it to RT you can hit that. (granted i have really not paid attention to most stuff in the sport in the last few years between school and frankly not caring a whole lot since my mag works fine and i dont play enough to buy anything else)

i rarely have ever found where buying the cheaper option is better in the long run due to lower quality in the end
-matt

[Lohman446]

with the whole thing about SP making the best bang for your buck right now, just because you can buy something that does X at a lower price doesnt mean it will continue to do X. i can go buy a cheap knife for 10-25 bucks but it will lose it edge, chip, bend, or break a lot more easily than a knife i pay 40-60 for. you can buy and ion or shocker or what ever, ya its cheaper but the design might not lend it self to working for extended periods of time.

at this point the need for electros is starting to fade away since some of the tourney series have even gone down to 12.5 bps limits and with the ULT especially if you tune it to RT you can hit that. (granted i have really not paid attention to most stuff in the sport in the last few years between school and frankly not caring a whole lot since my mag works fine and i dont play enough to buy anything else)

i rarely have ever found where buying the cheaper option is better in the long run due to lower quality in the end
-matt

But, I never buy a marker intending to own it in three years (pumps being the exception) so as long as the life expectancy will get me through that (and it does) they work fine.

[SR_matt]

But, I never buy a marker intending to own it in three years (pumps being the exception) so as long as the life expectancy will get me through that (and it does) they work fine.

3 years? wtf, a computer i can see a 3 year life expectancy but a paintball gun come on. if a gun only lasted me 3 years i would never even look at that company again, yes i expect there to be some of the orings and other consumable to need to be replaced but if a gun stopped working after 3 years then it is a piece of total crap

-matt

[Lohman446]

3 years? wtf, a computer i can see a 3 year life expectancy but a paintball gun come on. if a gun only lasted me 3 years i would never even look at that company again, yes i expect there to be some of the orings and other consumable to need to be replaced but if a gun stopped working after 3 years then it is a piece of total crap

-matt

I've never kept one till death. There are still SFTs running around and shooting. The point is in a market that turns over every year building things to last decades is counter productive.

[Shirow]

I don't know if that's true. I've put more money into my automag in upgrades/changes than I did buying the original marker. I spent $150 on an Automag Classic in 2001. Since then, I've bought (directly from AGD):

A 68/4500 flatline
An intelliframe
New body
Warp feed
Various spare parts

Due to the quality of their parts and markers I've also convinced two friends I started paintballing with to buy Tac-One's.

I don't think consumers should justify buying poor products because it 'doesn't make business sense' to make things last a long time.

Now, whether SP products are 'junk' or not, I don't know, I've never owned one to comment. I do think it's disingenuous to sit here and say that markers should have short life expectancies to keep the market moving though.

[SR_matt]

I've never kept one till death. There are still SFTs running around and shooting. The point is in a market that turns over every year building things to last decades is counter productive.

so because new things come out so often thats a reason to make junky products??? with that logic a car should only last 2-5 years, and a computer should only last 6 months. its not counter productive to make things last longer, its lazy and greedy to make products cheaper and not last as long since you get to sell 2 or 3 to the person over X years instead of one

-matt

[Lohman446]

so because new things come out so often thats a reason to make junky products??? with that logic a car should only last 2-5 years, and a computer should only last 6 months. its not counter productive to make things last longer, its lazy and greedy to make products cheaper and not last as long since you get to sell 2 or 3 to the person over X years instead of one

-matt

How many people have any interest in shooting a marker over X years old? Why spend the money to buy something that is not used? Produce what the consumers want quality wise is the reason to make junky products

[Shirow]

How many people have any interest in shooting a marker over X years old? Why spend the money to buy something that is not used? Produce what the consumers want quality wise is the reason to make junky products

As evidenced by the BST boards on this forum, I think it is quite clear that there are many people that shoot a marker for more than 3 years.

I think the thread is derailing though - it's not the quality of SP product that has incited hate in most people that boycott them.

[punkncat]

The subject has taken a distinct turn, but I will bite.

I think that, yes many manufacturers have caught on to the fact that most paintball players only last about 6 months to a year or so. They are looking for bang for their buck. So, they designed these more cheaply made markers, that are more economical, and offer great performance for the price, but truly are not designed to last a lifetime of play. They are designed to last for that target amount of time that a player is going to get in, buy stuff, burn out, and leave the sport.

More discerning players, people who take a true long term interest in the sport are going to take the time to seek out the better made, and higher priced markers. It is an unfortunate side effect of the market right now, that the quality of even the high end has suffered in order to make the company competative on what little margin they have on the volume items. Corners had to be cut somewhere, and it seems quality was across the board for most.

[[NA]WARLORD]

Kevin rayman was there from the beginning

As an employee, not the original owner.