Ya know, I am about "over it".....

[txaggie08]

I detest smart parts for what they did, especially when it came to AKA and ICD, both of which I shoot. It was cheap, it bordered on illegal, and was bad business in general. I wouldn't shoot there product on this alone, but that's not the only thing with them I have a major twitch with.

There product is generally somewhere between sub-par and crap. The shocker is built out of shat metal, with terrible anno. The LPR-less design is idiotic, and they had to scramble after release just to find a noid that wouldn't blow because the inconsistent reg was creeping and popping noids. The ion.....don't get me started. I spent a year an half running a rental shop and working as a gun tech at a largely rec-ball field. We sold ten ions in the time I was there, I had 5-6 of them in my hands for work the FIRST DAY. I had never held one before I went to work there, I'm intimately acquainted with the workings of one to the point I can tell you whats wrong by listening to where it's leaking from three feet from the gun.

SP has always been sleezy in there business practices, setting aside the patent thing. I will not support a company who releases guns so badly made they have to have upgrades put on them to be functional. For that matter releases guns so badly made they have to have the frame screws loosened to not leak(dozens of ions). I disliked SP when I got on the other side of the shop counter, I hate them now.


Take it FWIW, I will not use SP products if avoidable. Garner has proven himself a "butt", and there are a host of complaints with them a mile long. Like it or don't like it.

[punkncat]

Lol, it is funny, but the only SP marker that I really like much is the Ion. It is a fun little marker to fool around with and "trick out". Decent little shooter too, just a little heavy IMO but that is ok too.
Up until that new milsim "mini" came out the SP8 was a great choice for that genre as it were.

[DamianTC]

I am going to throw my 2 cents in this one.. and I am not even going into the "drama" of the smart part lawsuits.. I am going to give my opinion of their products. I can not throw them off the bus and just say they plain out suck.. If you were around long enough, you will know how good those old style all american barrels worked in our mags. Unfortunately, I was away from paintball for around 8 years and always wanted one of those all american barrels.. when I came back last summer I finally got to order one.. and I will say the new ones don't compare to those old early 90's AA barrels at all.... Quality barrel? yes. Great barrel? no. Now that I said what I had to say about the only SP thing I own, I will give my opinion about the Ion...

I am sure I am just like all of you on this.. everytime I go to the field and I see this young teen in game #1 or #2 of his paintball career and he is playing with an Ion..I can't stand that sight as much as any of you.. What ever happen to all the blow back bolt guns that are SUPPOSED to be everyone's entry level semi?? Remember those spyders, pro-lites, vm-68's, etc, etc??? But don't blame smart parts on that one. When the Ion was introduced, it was intented to get people out on the speedball course playing tourneyments without spending $1000 on their gun. Granted, if that was what the majority of the sales of the Ion went to, we would all see the Ion as a brilliant idea... BUT... reality kicks in and the Ion is the cheapest priced gun on the biggest paintball company's lineup of markers.. again, its the cheapest priced gun of the biggest paintball company. Who do you think is going to be buying that gun? Thats right, little johnny, who just watched his first paintball game on ESPN2 and begs his parents to let him play paintball for weeks until they finally decide to take him to the local paintball store and look at what paintball is all about... So they get there and mom and dad tell the guy working there that they want to let johnny try out paintball without breaking the bank.. so the first thing he shows them is the $199 Smart parts Ion.. Mom and Dad look at each other and smile... knowing they both found johnny's birthday present.........................

[Frizzle Fry]

Up until that new milsim "mini" came out the SP8 was a great choice for that genre as it were.

The marker formerly known as the "Blackpoint" JCS MKX-8? Basically JCS was making a marker modeled after the XM-8 and was bullied out of making a spool-valve gun by SP... They ended up making a mech STBB and SP claimed their body design and internals as their own to produce the SP8 (which had a cheaper body material).

[punkncat]

The marker formerly known as the "Blackpoint" JCS MKX-8? Basically JCS was making a marker modeled after the XM-8 and was bullied out of making a spool-valve gun by SP... They ended up making a mech STBB and SP claimed their body design and internals as their own to produce the SP8 (which had a cheaper body material).

I know nothing of the gun of which you refer to. Not saying you are wrong, cause I don't know, I do question one thing though, and would like some clarification if you don't mind.

You are saying that they stole the body design, and internals to create the SP8. It is my understanding that the internals of the 8 and the Ion are identical, and aside from the way they look are identical in operation. So, as I am unfamiliar, I ask...was the Ion itself a rip off of that milsim markers (JCS ) internals as well? My thought is that the Ion was around before either of the milsims in question. I have no proof of that, simply fuzzy memory of the general time each was released.

Thanks

[dark blade]

hes refering to this guy

http://www.bp-usa.com/mkx8.htm

which is not in production of the sp8 apaprently

[chinstrap]

The marker formerly known as the "Blackpoint" JCS MKX-8? Basically JCS was making a marker modeled after the XM-8 and was bullied out of making a spool-valve gun by SP... They ended up making a mech STBB and SP claimed their body design and internals as their own to produce the SP8 (which had a cheaper body material).

I remember seeing pre-release literature on those; always wondered what happened to it.

Just found this:
MKX-8 on PBReview.com

[Frizzle Fry]

You are saying that they stole the body design, and internals to create the SP8. It is my understanding that the internals of the 8 and the Ion are identical, and aside from the way they look are identical in operation.

An ION is a spool valve marker... The SP8 did have ION internals, but when JCS designed their marker it was a similar operating system but not ION-compatible. No plastic, improved bolt, and a different eye system. Plenty of other spool valve markers similar to the ION existed before SP started into their electro claims. From what I understand, the MXK8 design was close enough to an ION that SP realized they could easily drop ION internals into the JCS body design and did so. JCS then slightly modified the design, made it a bit more sturdy, and "backpeddled" a little bit to make it a STBB (which ended up being more reliable).

That said, the SP8 was a relatively solid marker... I'm not a fan of stock IONs but I've seen SP8s with full aftermarket internals and single-trigger conversions that could REALLY put paint down the field.

[ElPanda]

I have been saying this for a while now.
Its way way past being juvenile at this point.
I personally havent ever seen an Smart Parts marker I would have
but their tank regs and barrel kits I like.
My opinion....if you want to boycott Smart Parts have at it.
BUT KEEP YOUR HATE TO YOURSELF !

it would also be fair to tell anybody that likes smart parts to keep their opinion to themselves as well

keeping your opinion to yourself completely defeats the purpose of being on a forum btw

[DevilMan]

Hear hear!

I don't really have any interest in SP gear at this point but it DID get me back into the sport of paintball. I saw the SP-8, thought it was "cool" and bought one. I eventually sold it in favor of a Blazer. It was, however, a lot of fun to play with.

Every store locally seems to only carry Ion feednecks. How many non-SP markers use them? More than a few I think.

Like Microsoft, SP is an easy target for rebuke but standardization is a good thing.

Echo... echo...



You may have bought the SP8 and that got you where you are today..... but what if you had had other options from other companies to pick from? Not saying good bad or otherwise... but you went to start driving and could only find Ford Pintos how thrilling would that be?

DM

[DamianTC]

I was thinking about this subject again and I wanted to find out what other companies and non-AGD players thought of SP. So I did some searching on the web and found this thread:

http://www.techpb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1108

These are my two favorite posts from that thread. Remember this is not coming from an automag site

I like to look at the personal side of it. Here we go.. back when it was all pump markers, there were 2 semi's that hit the market.. the AGD automag and the WGP Autococker. Those days showed us a wonderful rivalry.. "mags shoot faster but autocockers are more accurate".. those were some fun days.
None the less, Tom Kaye, the inventor of the automag was the first to use Compressed air tanks for use with paintball. Everyone else in the industry claimed it wasn't safe.. claimed he was crazy. Did Tom Kaye patent this idea?? NO.. like many other of the items he created, he did it for the better of the sport. Just like the warp feed he created.. the first force fed paintball system available for all markers.
Anyways, imagine this.. Tom Kaye sponsors a team called the All Americans, and provides them with the latest and greatest automags. The captain of the team was none other than Billy Gardner. Billy saw an opportunity to make money, so after talking with Tom Kaye started his company (Smart Parts) to produce aftermarket pieces for the Automag. These included splash pieces just for looks, his "magic box" modification which really did nothing, and his "smart valve" which had no real benefits over the 68 valves.
They did sell though, because Billy was the captain of the All Americans and what better advertisement could you get?? And we all know that our sport is very driven by hype.
Now imagine this.. he and his brother (who has been in trouble with the law for scamming people out of money including a patent scam), realize there is a lot of money to be had in the industry as it moves towards electros. They did what was listed above by hp_lovecraft and bought a patent, modified it to say what it needed to say, and then started going after other companies saying they had to pay royalties or would be sued to the full extent.
One of the companies they went after.. AGD and Tom Kaye, the person who gave him his start and helped his company to begin with. The very man who made way for him to make it in this industry, sponsored him and helped him, he stabbed in the back. That is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people cannot stand Smart Parts. Tom Kaye did so much research and open sourced it to show the difference between truth and hype in our industry. His goal was always to better the paintball industry, because he knew that as the sport grew, there were more people to buy the products. Tom never tried to run anyone out of the sport, and enjoyed the competition and bringing new technology and innovation. And for his hard work and kindness he got stabbed in the back by the Gardner brothers.
Who knows what awesome technology we could have had if Tom Kaye was still in the paintball industry.
On top of that, if you look at all of Smart Parts markers, they look really similar to others. Take for existance the Impulse.. looks strikingly similar (externall & internally) to the Bushmaster b2k which preceeded it. Only the b2k had a LPR which is why it worked better. And now look at Smart Parts trying to modify a previous patent to include a patent on an air-through gripframe... something that MANY markers had in the past, and now that the Invert Mini has. I guess he wants a cut from the Invert Mini profit which is a much better marker than his ion. In the area of the patent form where you are supposed to show existing artwork that is similar, he didn't list ANY of the many markers that have an air-through grip frame. Once again, the Gardner scam-artists at work.
I personally will never purchase a smart parts product.. and never play with one. They are a disease to our industry... back in the old days it was all about friendly competition.. now it is one lawsuit after another... a sad thing for our industry as a whole...

PVI invented the Shocker. PVI is listed right on the shocker patent.
It was marketed, and sold through Smart Parts.
When the deal soured between PVI and Smart Parts, PVI left to sell an upgraded version called the Cyber9K. Smart Parts sued them for contract violation, and PVI lost everything, and the company was forclosed by the bank, and everything was sold at auction.
All PVI intellectual propery (ie Shocker and Maxflo) was bought by Smart Parts at the auction.
The first thing they did was have there names added to the Shocker, and Maxflo patents. The original Shocker patent was very specific, and was NOT a patent for "Electro Paintguns", but a patent for "Low Pressure, Dual-noid, paintguns".
When the WDP Angel came out, it wiped out all sales for the SP SHocker, as it instantly made it obsolete. Smart Parts cleverly had its patent REVISED to include all electro paintguns, and then SUED WDP.
This was 10 years ago. This lawsuit went on for years, and was only resolved a couple years ago, in which Smart Parts lost. quote from the judge: "the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
However, during that 10 years, Smart Parts used the PVI patent to sue nearly every paintball company that made electros.
Many stopped making electros, and others were forced to pay royalties. Some fought as well.
In short, the reason for all the Smart Parts hate is NOT the fact that they are suing everyone, but that this action is HARMING paintball. There are products that are no longer made because of what Smart Parts has done.

Don't it really make you think about all the AGD stuff that we should have, but don't because of this. It makes you mad. I can't even begin to imagine how much more advanced the Xmag would be today if AGD was able to develop more for it these last 6 years.. Better yet, the Xmag would probably not even be AGD's latest gun today

[chafnerjr]

I've got my anti-SP patch... how about you all?

[vf-xx]

Don't it really make you think about all the AGD stuff that we should have, but don't because of this. It makes you mad. I can't even begin to imagine how much more advanced the Xmag would be today if AGD was able to develop more for it these last 6 years.. Better yet, the Xmag would probably not even be AGD's latest gun today

True, but look at the Mag community today. Yes it's fairly small, but it does have a lot of tinkers, and a handful of folks developing real improvements (such as the Pneumag) in an open source forum. AGD's spirit is still here.

[kcombs9]

I've got my anti-SP patch... how about you all?

I do I do

[Lohman446]

Don't it really make you think about all the AGD stuff that we should have, but don't because of this. It makes you mad. I can't even begin to imagine how much more advanced the Xmag would be today if AGD was able to develop more for it these last 6 years.. Better yet, the Xmag would probably not even be AGD's latest gun today

Maybe... AGD (and the spirit of real science rather than marketing) were on the decline in paintball before the legal issues. TK has already talked about his "dream" marker - and frankly it went so far against all the aggness of today (and especially of a couple years ago) that it would have had a hard time with AGD marketing it. I think its (SP) a convenient out more than a reality.