Why not restart production on E-Mags and X-Mags?

[pito189]

Reality called; web sites that use all Flash suck.

Why?

[trevorjk]

Why?

because not everyone is in the 21st century with nice computer and 4mb lan lines.

i never go to those sites strictly because of the flash.

[kabley]

there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

Do you mean if AGD came back into the scene? No likely. You know how markets work.

[questionful]

I think AGD could use a new website "look". Doesn't have to be flash, just has to look better. With better photography of the guns, too.

If AGD could figure out a way to get around the pneuframe patent, that would be awesome.

[BigEvil]

Do you mean if AGD came back into the scene? No likely. You know how markets work.

I mean since things are remaining 'status quo'.

[maniacmechanic]

So, with all of these great ideas, griping, and critiquing, who will be the first to step up and either pay the legal fees to fight (and hopefully win) a battle with Smart Parts over electro licensing, OR, pay them the money they want for a license? Or is the general consensus that AGD just make mechs?

While you are at it, who who will pony up the investment capital needed to produce an inventory? R&D? (So forth and so on)

If there were truckloads of cash to be made in this market, the after market would be filling the gaps created by the manufacturer. As we can see with the Pneu-mag situation, and by the lack of 'modern' after market bolt on electro frames, the mag market must not be very lucrative. It's nice for the small guys who want to make parts, but you dont see companies like Empire or Hybrid running out to make parts for us anymore do we?

Quite frankly, short of anything revolutionary I am very happy with the status quo. I am thrilled to still be able to purchase replacement parts to keep all my mags up and running and hope to be able to for a long time.

And with as many people "Mag-whoring" as there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

totally in agreement with everything you said Big E especially what's in the red

Another ? Did Tom ever patent anything ? I've never seen a patent # or a patent pending thing on any of my AGD markers or parts

Really we have to look at this in the real world ; we (Automaggots) are a Very small cog in the Very large wheel of the paintball world ,I am glad we have the aftermarket suppliers that we have now & the small scale innovater's like we have here , nobody but nobody mod's any other marker like we do our pride & joys , if it was just about shootin paint we would have the flavor of the month markers , but we don't , most of us love to tinker and see what we can do , and it's not about bps anymore it's about hitting what you shoot at in 3 balls or less & shootin over the chrono with a 3 fps varaition

[BigEvil]

totally in agreement with everything you said Big E especially what's in the red

Another ? Did Tom ever patent anything ? I've never seen a patent # or a patent pending thing on any of my AGD markers or parts

Really we have to look at this in the real world ; we (Automaggots) are a Very small cog in the Very large wheel of the paintball world ,I am glad we have the aftermarket suppliers that we have now & the small scale innovater's like we have here , nobody but nobody mod's any other marker like we do our pride & joys , if it was just about shootin paint we would have the flavor of the month markers , but we don't , most of us love to tinker and see what we can do , and it's not about bps anymore it's about hitting what you shoot at in 3 balls or less & shootin over the chrono with a 3 fps varaition

Thanks, you know.. the whole 'great minds' thing

[GoatBoy]

OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

...

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

What's "revolutionary" about the Tac-One?

This "it's has to be revolutionary" stuff is just a cheap excuse. If it had to be revolutionary, the Tac-One would never have made it out the door.

I'd settle for "improved". It would be nice to see carbon versions of the intelliframe and y-grip. I've mentioned this to other people, and they seemed all for it. I'm not sure why you can do it for the single triggers, but can't do it for these two grips. Those would come out lighter than the aluminum ones, right? I don't even need that microswitch mount. Keep the aluminum frames around as an option, but maybe pre-drill/tap the setscrew holes for the pneumatic rams.

Also, I just realized that the non-ASA tank I'm about to put on my mag has an on/off, but no bleed as far as I can tell. The mag still holds pressure past the point it will even cycle after you shut the air off. I'll have to find a bleed/purge valve (which doesn't seem likely) or use a large slide check. It might be nice to build a bleed/purge valve into rear grip screw so we can degas the marker and still work on the uppers without even removing the air system from the rest of the gun. No, I do not want to put a QD on my gun unless I absolutely have to.


See? Not revolutionary, but improvements, and by that I mean real improvements, not crap like milling or miscellaneous other aesthetic garbage.

So, with all of these great ideas, griping, and critiquing, who will be the first to step up and either pay the legal fees to fight (and hopefully win) a battle with Smart Parts over electro licensing, OR, pay them the money they want for a license? Or is the general consensus that AGD just make mechs?

While you are at it, who who will pony up the investment capital needed to produce an inventory? R&D? (So forth and so on)

Who ponied up the costs to develop the automags in the first place? Who ponied up the costs to design the RT? Or the warp? Or the ULE products? Or the Level 10? Or the ULT? Or the Intelliframe? Or the Y-Grip?

Did you personally pony any money up directly for the development of any of these products?

What about attempting a WDP side-door?

If there were truckloads of cash to be made in this market, the after market would be filling the gaps created by the manufacturer. As we can see with the Pneu-mag situation, and by the lack of 'modern' after market bolt on electro frames, the mag market must not be very lucrative. It's nice for the small guys who want to make parts, but you dont see companies like Empire or Hybrid running out to make parts for us anymore do we?

This is a logical fallacy on probably more than one level; I'm not sure which ones it technically falls under.

What did Empire ever make for the Automag?

Are the Rogue parts not doing very well?

Quite frankly, short of anything revolutionary I am very happy with the status quo. I am thrilled to still be able to purchase replacement parts to keep all my mags up and running and hope to be able to for a long time.

And with as many people "Mag-whoring" as there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

The value of your mags are wholly contingent on the survival of AGD. The moment AGD goes under, your mags will begin approaching the value of a Kingman Hammer. Just like the value of stainless AIR regs is artificially held at ~$100 because that's what they're worth as trade-ins.

If AGD manages to stay alive by doing nothing new, I'm all for it. I'm glad that AGD is still around, and I hope they will remain forever. I'm just worried that, like that quote from Shawshank Redemption, you either "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

To pretend that there's no interest, and therefore no money, in a quality product is somewhat... off. Why bother playing paintball if you don't believe you can win? Why bother being in an industry if you don't believe you can succeed? AGD's customers seem to believe. It's too bad AGD itself doesn't believe.

[questionful]

Tom or AGD or whoever's name it's under did patent stuff. I know the warp feed is patented. Maybe more stuff, I would have patented the flatline. I'll check what else they patented later.


As for what AGD could do. Yeah, they seem to be doing just fine, and that is great and enough. I just wish more people realized how awesome they are.

Wow, when I finished typing this, I saw two or three new posts. I guess what I want AGD to do depends on how well they are doing financially. If they are doing fine, then they should keep going like they are now. If they want or need more, then they should start doing stuff, like the CF frames that's a good idea. With the pre-tapped holes, that's an excellent idea. Though it would proably be some brackets to hold nuts in place. Sounds cheap to me, and they could put it out for only a little more than single trigger CF frames cost, right? Even if they had to have a metal trigger guard for sturdiness.

[BigEvil]

OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...



What's "revolutionary" about the Tac-One?

This "it's has to be revolutionary" stuff is just a cheap excuse. If it had to be revolutionary, the Tac-One would never have made it out the door.

I'd settle for "improved". It would be nice to see carbon versions of the intelliframe and y-grip. I've mentioned this to other people, and they seemed all for it. I'm not sure why you can do it for the single triggers, but can't do it for these two grips. Those would come out lighter than the aluminum ones, right? I don't even need that microswitch mount. Keep the aluminum frames around as an option, but maybe pre-drill/tap the setscrew holes for the pneumatic rams.

Also, I just realized that the non-ASA tank I'm about to put on my mag has an on/off, but no bleed as far as I can tell. The mag still holds pressure past the point it will even cycle after you shut the air off. I'll have to find a bleed/purge valve (which doesn't seem likely) or use a large slide check. It might be nice to build a bleed/purge valve into rear grip screw so we can degas the marker and still work on the uppers without even removing the air system from the rest of the gun. No, I do not want to put a QD on my gun unless I absolutely have to.


See? Not revolutionary, but improvements, and by that I mean real improvements, not crap like milling or miscellaneous other aesthetic garbage.




Who ponied up the costs to develop the automags in the first place? Who ponied up the costs to design the RT? Or the warp? Or the ULE products? Or the Level 10? Or the ULT? Or the Intelliframe? Or the Y-Grip?

Did you personally pony any money up directly for the development of any of these products?

What about attempting a WDP side-door?




This is a logical fallacy on probably more than one level; I'm not sure which ones it technically falls under.

What did Empire ever make for the Automag?

Are the Rogue parts not doing very well?




The value of your mags are wholly contingent on the survival of AGD. The moment AGD goes under, your mags will begin approaching the value of a Kingman Hammer. Just like the value of stainless AIR regs is artificially held at ~$100 because that's what they're worth as trade-ins.

If AGD manages to stay alive by doing nothing new, I'm all for it. I'm glad that AGD is still around, and I hope they will remain forever. I'm just worried that, like that quote from Shawshank Redemption, you either "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

To pretend that there's no interest, and therefore no money, in a quality product is somewhat... off. Why bother playing paintball if you don't believe you can win? Why bother being in an industry if you don't believe you can succeed? AGD's customers seem to believe. It's too bad AGD itself doesn't believe.

Rogue is a small dealer, who does well in a niche market that few are willing to cater to. At one time, all of the major aftermarket parts makers produced aftermarket parts for AGD guns. Taso, Pro-Team, Smart Parts, Diamond Labs, ShockTech, Centerflag ect, ect.

To think that ANYONE has oodles of cash laying around to sink into inventory that will sit around for years is... well.. idunno you tell me. Just like the fact that there are still NEW parts for classic mags and emags laying around speaks volumes. Those parts were produced YEARS ago.

Also the fact that these products must be produced with high grade materials and to strict standards increase the costs tremendously. So if no one is willing to make a mountain of inventory to lower the production costs, who will be willing to pay above market retail prices? Then add in that the inventory would most likely sit around, so your return on investment would be very slow, if at all.

I deal with cheaply made goods that are imported everyday. I myself would NOT purchase inferior quality products that are made over seas and of lesser grade material. If I want that, I would buy a Shocker. However, that is just my preference. A Shocker will so the same thing a mag will do - shoot a paintball when I pull the trigger. (Well they are supposed to)

I agree that some minor things can be done to 'freshen up' some of the product line. But if the old items still sell, or, if there are still large quantities of them laying around, than it probably wont happen. Some of the specific ideas you mention are good ones, but could lead to legal issues with people who hold the patents on them. If you add a micro switch mount to a frame, then technically its now an electro frame and opens up a pandoras box of potential trouble. Sucks, but thats the way it works.

[maniacmechanic]

[QUOTE=GoatBoy]OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...[QUOTE]

well your right about that 4 posts in 05 , none in 06 , 3 in 07 & 6 this month
I did like what you said on 1-27-2005 though " I'd play until my mags died and I couldn't keep them running anymore (at a reasonable cost)... And then I'd quit the sport."
This was in reference to this thread , http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165232

[GoatBoy]

well your right about that 4 posts in 05 , none in 06 , 3 in 07 & 6 this month
I did like what you said on 1-27-2005 though " I'd play until my mags died and I couldn't keep them running anymore (at a reasonable cost)... And then I'd quit the sport."
This was in reference to this thread , http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165232

You know what? I still feel that way. Over this time, I've looked at other markers, in particular the Ion and the Invert Mini. Neither of them still fits what I want in a marker.

Fortunately, mags seem to last a really long time. I pulled mine off the shelf after a hiatus, ran some oil through it, and it was ready to go. Never even bothered to pull the valve off the frame. By the end of my first day back, everyone there was wearing my crappy blue paint.

I've got like 3 parts kits I managed to acquire that I've almost never bothered to open. Take a guess at what one part I've had to fish out of those parts kits; the same part I'll most likely need to replace again in the future?

[maniacmechanic]

You know what? I still feel that way. Over this time, I've looked at other markers, in particular the Ion and the Invert Mini. Neither of them still fits what I want in a marker.

Fortunately, mags seem to last a really long time. I pulled mine off the shelf after a hiatus, ran some oil through it, and it was ready to go. Never even bothered to pull the valve off the frame. By the end of my first day back, everyone there was wearing my crappy blue paint.

I've got like 3 parts kits I managed to acquire that I've almost never bothered to open. Take a guess at what one part I've had to fish out of those parts kits; the same part I'll most likely need to replace again in the future?

the bolt bumper , seems to be my most used part

[BigEvil]

the bolt bumper , seems to be my most used part

Xmod seems to have cut bumpers life spans down drastically. If you glue them down they last much longer.