New Frame - Preorder inquiry

[longi]

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I'm not saying it can't be done, but it steps on a few people's toes.
I'm sure I'll end up modeling a drop-in frame just to see how everything could fit.
Perhaps I could do a little secondary machining in my shop when the frames come in for a few that want it.

On a side note, in the Gforce frame I'm holding there's a nice sqaure ram housing. Does anyone who makes that particular component?
I'm thinking I can move the frame back and use a vert grip. Then a 9V, noid, and ram would EASILY fit in the frame. Just thinking.

Hilltop, you can cut about 1/3 the height off the MSV1, I did it in a mag and the difference wasn't worth the effort.

You could manufacture a plate and a "u" bracket to hold an MPA-3 in place.

[mpsd]

Didn't see this before, as I was travelling. Looks awesome and I realy like the desing and concept. Would like to see the sear on it though. Don't know why but looks like it would go too low, compared with the standard position (mag with a rail). To make it even more "tinkerer ready", it would be nice if it came with the top ready for an MPA-3, a hole for a MSV-2 actuator and a support for a trigger switch as well as a tappered hole in the bottom for a LPR inside the frame (like the frames Jay did). This way you would acomodate any kind of project, being it a mech, pneu or EP.

I loved the angled ASA, the large trigger guard and the S shapped trigger. Anyways, count me in!

[DanMan]

Wow gone for three days and you miss alot aroung here! I agree with the snatch grip idea and think that you should make these as simple as possible and then add features afterwards as people want them.

[Ninjeff]

LOVE THE IDEA!!!

I'd be in for one....if...

1. i would prefer a vert asa out front. i absolutely dig the idea of the whole bit being together however, and i love the asa close to the trigger guard.

2. Snatch grip out back. Everything in one package? awesome.

3. Wave style trigger. Must have it.

4. i like a more 90* frame personally.

I'd pay 150-200 if the asa was vert. the rest is gravy

[micromag-man]

lots of reading, it looks like a fun new project.

Quick question, Would it work with a PTP micromag. Since the micro has the rail built into the body, would this grip work on it or is this just for AGD rail-less bodies?

[Pneumagger]

Pneumagger: lmk if you want any of this deleted, I'm just throwing this out there to give some ideas to anyone that happens to be looking. I'd have no problem taking it out of your thread.

Actually that would be about as cheap as you can make it. Only 3 additional tapped holes, 1 ~3/8 drilled hole and a slightly larger milled channel behind the trigger. The internal features of the ram(a honed hole with a fitting on the end) would be machined in the frame(no adjustment, or placement issues because its permanent). There would be no additional material setups, and just 4 additional tools on the top(2 drills,hone, and tap), and maybe a smaller endmill for the interal profile grip hole.

Best part is it would still allow a noid similar to the emags be used since that large type of noid is located towards the front of the gun in the frame.....it would also allows enough room for EP noid setup. Plenty of room for something like a t-board.

Even using the in frame sear setup, there should be plenty of room for any upgrade(pneu,EP,big emag noid) option for the mag. I would go as far to include a mounting point for the emag noid(not as hard as it sounds).

I was really liking this design, as it allowed simple configuration for almost any firing option available for the mag. I was going to build my EP with the vertical ram setup, but it was too easy to mount it in the frame as is. But if I was ever to make my own frame, thats how it would be setup.

I was thinking broader than just a pneu upgrade trigger....but I guess thats obvious in the above description

Also I'd talk to a patent attorney, as something like that wouldnt directly force a customer toward one path of upgrade, so it may not fall under infringement on one specific patent. Honestly dont know about that, but I would ask if I was making a frame


Placing the msv1 closer to the pivot point on a trigger would definitely have an impact as it is a lever arm. If I were to build a frame, I would want the 3 way placed high as possible; within reason, on the trigger to reduce the required forces; forces can always be increased by adding magnets or springs, but never reduced. This also leaves trigger length adjustable by set screws. With the sear pivot integrated into the frame and basically being in the way, the 3way has to be placed lower....placing it lower limits the ability to lower the forces for activation.....this is why I mentioned cutting it down.

1/3 off the height of the msv-2 comes straight off the vent side right?(other side cant be cut down too much because of the threads...vent side just has the vent and a bunch of material).....I should cut mine down while I'm at it.....make for one sick single trigger pneu setup....

anyone have a beat up single trigger aluminum automag frame they no longer need? shoot me a pm (evilgrin)

Don't know how I missed this post

Don't worry about removing anything. It's good discussion.
For your contemplation though, I am considering making a less refined (manual machined) version of this adapter:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/CAD%20Stuff/UEMF%20V2_0/Noidbracket.jpg

Should fit any intelliframe mount. A trigger switch, capacitors, board and noid should fit in the frame.
Although 9v batteries are kinda anemic for tha huge noid - even lithiums.

Also, about a year ago I took a cut down MSV1 and put it in a CF single trigger mag frame.
It fits PERFECTLY behind the trigger where the safety assembly went. I epoxied all the parts into the much skinnier frame.
It worked well, but it looked like poop and because of epoxy, servicability was subpar.
Fun tinkering, but nothing slick enough to write home about.

Don't worry, I will incorporate all of the tinkerability (word?) features I can once we settle on a design.
I'm going to talk to the shop and if features dont add significant costs they'll probably get tossed in.
For example, front LPR mounting hole won't be incorporated. Not everyone want's one and it will drive up cost and hurt the flowlines.
I'll just drill and tap those holes on my minimill for the few users who want it. mill/drill/tap... 20 mins and an easy task.

lots of reading, it looks like a fun new project.

Quick question, Would it work with a PTP micromag. Since the micro has the rail built into the body, would this grip work on it or is this just for AGD rail-less bodies?

The entire frame sits in the old footprint of the UMF (or whatever frame gets used).
If XXX frame fits an AGD marker, odds are this one will too. You will need to the sear in the designated rail and use a block behind the trigger to rest the trigger rod on.
At most, an arced shim will need placed between the frame/railto make the interface flat again.

[Pneumagger]

Update:

Ok, done a little bit of analysis. To quell fears of the sear... here is a central section view of the frame along the right side plane.
In this pic, the sear is in the FIRE position. Keep in mind, this is my best sear approximation using ONLY a Starrett ruler to measure.


I've highlighted some cool things and some concerns.

1) You can see in the fire position, the front sear arm cuts the saftey hole in half. This is very cool because the safety assembly can be rotated and used as a sear block INSTEAD of a trigger block. This means it's a safety for all you pneumag and electro tinkerers as well as an absolute safety gaurding against shocks setting off the marker. No more slamming the back or the reg with a fist and getting a shot...

2) You can see that the very tip of the sear interferes with the trigger pin throughout it's travel. This is a concern as proper bolt travel requires the FULL length of the sear hook intact. I will be moving the trigger rod hole ~0.055" forward to aleviate this interference. This should have no impact on feel of the UMF with the lever/wave face of the trigger cut back to offset the new difference.

3) The dashed line represents the original sear arm shelf height in the UMF frame (or any AGD mag frame). To acomodate the new relative frame position, the shelf has been cut 0.642" deeper. This means the sear rod impacts the trigger about 48% lower than before. Therefore, the trigger pull on a mech mag will be about 50% heavier but 50% shorter (angular displacement). With ULT this should still make for a nice trigger pull - probably a tad crispy with the stock RTP. However the RT effect should be increased 50% as well. Crank your tanks up and start rippin...
None of this matters for pneumag and electro modders.

4) See the oval in the back? This is where your actuator will be held and will strike the rear arm of the sear.
You can see that cutting off the useless leg of the sear allows ample room for a 3 way or solenoid directly behind the trigger. Don't worry Hilltop
This will be offered only as a mech frame, I just wanted to show the tinkerer's that this frame has good space for shenanigan's.



It is also important to note that all these features are interface control drawing features. If your an engineering type, you may be familiar with that verbage. In layman's term - these features must be present in these relative locations for any AGD marker to work with the frame. Aside from these features, ANYTHING about the frame can be changed or molded around them. Pictured below are the only features of a frame that matter - the rest is fluff.

[behemoth]

You get my message about extending the front out, or you think otherwise?

I think it'd benefit ergonomics as well as aesthetics.

And we both know i'm the KING of aesthetics, i'm so sexy.

[Hilltop Customs]

Niiiice, some reason your pics dont show up in firefox, but in IE they work fine.....must be the host or something.

quick question... you mentioned moving the trigger pivot forward by 0.055", that wont be forward enough when the the trigger is on there will it? I mean the sear will clear the pivot rod, but with the trigger on there the diameter will be increased since the rod is captured within the trigger.

I like how the safety just happens to be in just about the perfect location for interatction directly with the sear

Cross sectional views FTW

Not much meat on that backside....any idea on how much clearance is under the on/off porition of the sear when it is the at rest position? Just trying to picture how deep the ram hole would have to be in there. Think it will be a problem since the cross sectional width of the back side of the frame doesnt seem to be very wide compared to the ram size.

[Sumthinwicked]

i have to watch this shame it wont fit on the new micro thats comming out

[Spider-TW]

Niiiice, some reason your pics dont show up in firefox, but in IE they work fine.....must be the host or something.

I know what you're saying, but it's working in firefox for me. I had trouble with Shane-O-Mac's pump rail thread (still do). Half the time one of the pictures (of the rail) doesn't show up as even a symbol. Shane was using firefox and had no trouble with it. Try a refresh after it's loaded (?).

[spwz99]

I want one. I just hope that the preorder doesn't happen right around the time I have to buy textbooks...

[jade_monkey07]

cant wait to see what this accually looks like on a marker

[snoopay700]

Niiiice, some reason your pics dont show up in firefox, but in IE they work fine.....must be the host or something.

quick question... you mentioned moving the trigger pivot forward by 0.055", that wont be forward enough when the the trigger is on there will it? I mean the sear will clear the pivot rod, but with the trigger on there the diameter will be increased since the rod is captured within the trigger.

I like how the safety just happens to be in just about the perfect location for interatction directly with the sear

Glad to see i'm not the only one who noticed that. I think it's headaches like these that made AGD use a rail and not do away with it on the x-mag.

[Pneumagger]

The UMF triggers are wide enough to have a forked journal. That's how the trigger will clear the sear.
I took a few comments and made some changes.
By the way, I'm using firefox and photobucket... I've had no issues

I did make an EGO-type trigger gard and It just wouldn't flow with an integrated ASA on the front. looked kinda retarted IMO.
Plus, it just so happened a rounded off UMF grip is about the same size as the EGO grip. Only difference is the frame angle is a teeney bit different.
So I left the basic UMF shape. Those UMFs have ALOT of room in them. Plus, they can be tapped for EGO grips.
Longer tail to capture the zpin. Rounded out the back so the frame insn't so angular.
Included another version for consideration that has the ASA moved forward. (I still like the 15 degree look more).
Included the LPR hose line. Fixed the trigger pin clearance issue. Changed the trigger guard shape slightly.



Curiosity killed the cat, or so they say: