New Frame - Preorder inquiry

[Pneumagger]

Hilltop,
This is an Idea I've been kicking around for a long time. I'm going to get one made for sure.
With one-off CNC parts running $500+ I just figured, if one's going to get made why not just make as many as possible and do a preorder.
Costs less per frame and more people have unique frames.

For those worried about "new" sear position, there is not new positioning.
Every screw hole in the mag is based off the two rail screw holes. This was the rail's purpose... index everything relative to each other.
As long as the AGD sear pin is located in the same spatial separation to those two screw holes (the body and valve screw) the mag will function fine.
Only the trigger pin location has changed and it's already been addressed that the trigger is losing leverage. Yes, there will be a weight increase as well as a shorter pull.
However, With a reactive trigger, I see this being pretty sweet for bursts giving the sear that much leverage on the trigger

For the pneumag crowd, the ram will probably need to be mounted vertically.
As well as sitting higher to the mag body the frame also sits further back on the body. This shouldn't be much of an issue.
I'm not going to lie, this frame will be more difficult to convert because of the space needed for a manual 3way.
It'll probably be easier to make into an electro frame though because a soleoid can go anywhere.

[Hilltop Customs]

However, With a reactive trigger, I see this being pretty sweet for bursts giving the sear that much leverage on the trigger

good point, I didnt think about the reactivity being increased also. Should increase the difference between force pull force of and resetting force, making rt a lot more noticeable/effective at lower input pressures

[trevorjk]

here is an idea for tapping the ASA for an LPR conversion. instead of tapping the ASA. just mill a flat indent on where you would want it. and put some kind of jewel on it for your business logo, that way if some one wants it milled, they know exactly where it should go.

makes sense to me, let me know if i have to revise

[Hilltop Customs]

here is an idea for tapping the ASA for an LPR conversion. instead of tapping the ASA. just mill a flat indent on where you would want it. and put some kind of jewel on it for your business logo, that way if some one wants it milled, they know exactly where it should go.

makes sense to me, let me know if i have to revise

If your going through the trouble of a set up to mill a pocket(the indent) you might as well just drill and tap the hole, it wouldnt require much more machine time and produces a product that would require minimal customer effort for the pneu conversion. Although a jewel would look a lot nicer than a set screw head. At least that would be my thoughts on it.

For an e-frame that wouldnt require a LPR, I think a jewel on the front would be sexy.

Pneumagger any chance this could be made for a drop-in pneu internals? looks like you have a decent sized trigger slot in there....any chance it could be made a little wider for an msv2 to slide in and be pinched in place with a couple set-screws? Only problems I can think of offhand would be sear interference(should be avoidable) and the lower activation point on the trigger. IMO that would make this setup the first choice for pneu conversions.

[snoopay700]

Pneumagger any chance this could be made for a drop-in pneu internals? looks like you have a decent sized trigger slot in there....any chance it could be made a little wider for an msv2 to slide in and be pinched in place with a couple set-screws? Only problems I can think of offhand would be sear interference(should be avoidable) and the lower activation point on the trigger. IMO that would make this setup the first choice for pneu conversions.

That's what i would do with it. I'd have to drop a little more on parts and a body, but if i had a job at the time i would totally be on board for this frame, and come next quarter (providing i can get enough money to pay off this quarter) i will definitely make it so i have time for a job, so if you start taking preorders in december i would be on board.

[Hilltop Customs]

oh and just for a further thought about drop in pneu setup.....use the msv-2(with removed lever arm) behind the trigger and have a hole machined from the top, correct diameter for the mpa-3 piston to drop in directly below the on/off of the sear. A second smaller concentric air fitting threaded hole out the bottom. aka machined in ram for opperating the on/off.

Just throwing that out there.....its something I was tossing around making before I got deeper into the whole marker train of thought.

drop in msv2, tighten 2 set screws, and attach air fittings/lpr. Hard to beat that for a switch from mechanical to pneu.

actually I'd even look at making an msv-2 imitation 3 way. either that or machine the height of it down so you can located it higher on the trigger(going to be hard to do since the sear will be in the way.

I'm not trying to say to do this, but just thought it would be helpful if your thinking about going wild with it. anyway I'll shut up and let the thread continue

[snoopay700]

oh and just for a further thought about drop in pneu setup.....use the msv-2(with removed lever arm) behind the trigger and have a hole machined from the top, correct diameter for the mpa-3 piston to drop in directly below the on/off of the sear. A second smaller concentric air fitting threaded hole out the bottom. aka machined in ram for opperating the on/off.

Just throwing that out there.....its something I was tossing around making before I got deeper into the whole marker train of thought.

drop in msv2, tighten 2 set screws, and attach air fittings/lpr. Hard to beat that for a switch from mechanical to pneu.

actually I'd even look at making an msv-2 imitation 3 way. either that or machine the height of it down so you can located it higher on the trigger(going to be hard to do since the sear will be in the way.

I'm not trying to say to do this, but just thought it would be helpful if your thinking about going wild with it. anyway I'll shut up and let the thread continue

Exactly, with your influence i won't be able to afford it.

Although i may not be able to thanks to college anyway.

[Pneumagger]

Page 1:

To settle the "pneu-ready" discussions early...
There will NOT be a frame that simply accepts bolt on pneu parts. That skims a little too close to the whole patent debate.
However, there more than likely be a front tapped hole for an LPR and possible a small channel in the top to convey an LPR hose.
There will also be a generous solid tab/bracket inside to mount whatever you guys want.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it steps on a few people's toes.
I'm sure I'll end up modeling a drop-in frame just to see how everything could fit.
Perhaps I could do a little secondary machining in my shop when the frames come in for a few that want it.

On a side note, in the Gforce frame I'm holding there's a nice sqaure ram housing. Does anyone who makes that particular component?
I'm thinking I can move the frame back and use a vert grip. Then a 9V, noid, and ram would EASILY fit in the frame. Just thinking.

Hilltop, you can cut about 1/3 the height off the MSV1, I did it in a mag and the difference wasn't worth the effort.

[grEnAlEins]

Perhaps I could do a little secondary machining in my shop when the frames come in for a few that want it.

[jade_monkey07]

Does anyone know who makes that particular component?

If my fixed version of your question is correct then the answer is Garf himself made it. he was also going to design a new 3 way but chose to use the msv instead

[Hilltop Customs]

Pneumagger: lmk if you want any of this deleted, I'm just throwing this out there to give some ideas to anyone that happens to be looking. I'd have no problem taking it out of your thread.

Exactly, with your influence i won't be able to afford it.

Although i may not be able to thanks to college anyway.

Actually that would be about as cheap as you can make it. Only 3 additional tapped holes, 1 ~3/8 drilled hole and a slightly larger milled channel behind the trigger. The internal features of the ram(a honed hole with a fitting on the end) would be machined in the frame(no adjustment, or placement issues because its permanent). There would be no additional material setups, and just 4 additional tools on the top(2 drills,hone, and tap), and maybe a smaller endmill for the interal profile grip hole.

Best part is it would still allow a noid similar to the emags be used since that large type of noid is located towards the front of the gun in the frame.....it would also allows enough room for EP noid setup. Plenty of room for something like a t-board.

Even using the in frame sear setup, there should be plenty of room for any upgrade(pneu,EP,big emag noid) option for the mag. I would go as far to include a mounting point for the emag noid(not as hard as it sounds).

I was really liking this design, as it allowed simple configuration for almost any firing option available for the mag. I was going to build my EP with the vertical ram setup, but it was too easy to mount it in the frame as is. But if I was ever to make my own frame, thats how it would be setup.

Page 1:

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it steps on a few people's toes.
I'm sure I'll end up modeling a drop-in frame just to see how everything could fit.
Perhaps I could do a little secondary machining in my shop when the frames come in for a few that want it.

On a side note, in the Gforce frame I'm holding there's a nice sqaure ram housing. Does anyone who makes that particular component?
I'm thinking I can move the frame back and use a vert grip. Then a 9V, noid, and ram would EASILY fit in the frame. Just thinking.

Hilltop, you can cut about 1/3 the height off the MSV1, I did it in a mag and the difference wasn't worth the effort.

I was thinking broader than just a pneu upgrade trigger....but I guess thats obvious in the above description

Also I'd talk to a patent attorney, as something like that wouldnt directly force a customer toward one path of upgrade, so it may not fall under infringement on one specific patent. Honestly dont know about that, but I would ask if I was making a frame


Placing the msv1 closer to the pivot point on a trigger would definitely have an impact as it is a lever arm. If I were to build a frame, I would want the 3 way placed high as possible; within reason, on the trigger to reduce the required forces; forces can always be increased by adding magnets or springs, but never reduced. This also leaves trigger length adjustable by set screws. With the sear pivot integrated into the frame and basically being in the way, the 3way has to be placed lower....placing it lower limits the ability to lower the forces for activation.....this is why I mentioned cutting it down.

1/3 off the height of the msv-2 comes straight off the vent side right?(other side cant be cut down too much because of the threads...vent side just has the vent and a bunch of material).....I should cut mine down while I'm at it.....make for one sick single trigger pneu setup....

anyone have a beat up single trigger aluminum automag frame they no longer need? shoot me a pm (evilgrin)

[longi]

How about milling the top of the frame just wide enough to able to slot in an MSV-1 into the top of the frame so as the MSV-1 on/off makes contact with the rear of the curved
part of the trigger shoe by the safety switch, ala Gforce styley. That way we can make a sear extender like the Gforce type allowing us to lower the lpr input pressure to gain higher rates of fire, or am I being a bad boy?

[Pneumagger]

there is no rail. The actual sear occupies that space.
Still, if you were to mount the MSV-1 Even lower than the sear your MSV-1 would be contacting the bottom 25% of the trigger.
There's a reason most every pneumag switched away from usin the MSV-1 in the middle of the trigger and this would be an even heavier trigger.
The reason the Gforce frame works well with an MSV1 is because the 3way can use the top 10% of the trigger.

[longi]

there is no rail. The actual sear occupies that space.
Still, if you were to mount the MSV-1 Even lower than the sear your MSV-1 would be contacting the bottom 25% of the trigger.
There's a reason most every pneumag switched away from usin the MSV-1 in the middle of the trigger and this would be an even heavier trigger.
The reason the Gforce frame works well with an MSV1 is because the 3way can use the top 10% of the trigger.

Iif you look into the top of the frame you can see a ledge, i've already checked it out. The MSV-1 sits on that ledge just perfectly. Where the safety is, the MSV-1 on/off would strike the rear excess metal of the trigger in front of the safety. Moving the MSV-1 there would allow relocation of the MSV-2 lower in the frame in turn allowing you to lower the LPR input pressure thus allowing you to krank up the tank input pressure for higher rates of fire. Take a look at a frame and you'll see what i mean. It's a master stroke on Gforce's part, how none of us ever saw that i'll never know! :)

[longi]

Just to add, the MSV-1 is mounted in the top of the frame, not the middle. As soon as i get some free time i'm going to be trying it out on a new frame. Bring it on!!