So I was Thinking about a New Gun Design.....

[nerobro]

Short of breach design, adding a warpfeed is unrelated to gun development.

I wish bosch would call me back.

[vf-xx]

While we are discussing this "ultimate gun". Some of us recall the design ideas on the second generation warp feed. Do your thoughts include its use?

Some of us do not recall such discussions. Any pointers to said discussions?

[Lohman446]

search it, I am sure it will come up, I beleive the search term would be second warp or some such. (home computer slow, Ill search it tomorrow if noone finds it)

Actually I bring it up because sealing off the breech became a point of contention if using a fuel injector as a power source, and I still maintain it could be done with a good pressure feed system, why not integrate it?

[nerobro]

Actually I bring it up because sealing off the breech became a point of contention if using a fuel injector as a power source, and I still maintain it could be done with a good pressure feed system, why not integrate it?

That adds a whole new layer of complexity. For that to work you'd need to depend on the power feed system to provide adequate breach sealing. I.. think it would. I think it would work. I do not think it would lead to great consistency. You'd need to have a gate of some sort on the feed side to stop the post ball vacuum, or the good 'ol bernuli from sucking the next ball into the breach.

I don't see how the gun being fed by an injector setup would make a difference one way or another in this case. it would work no matter how air was delivered to the breach.

[druid]

so what are we talking about here......an "ultimate gun" to actually market?

...or just something to appease someone's intellectual prowess-slash-ego, just so they can say "I did it!!....hrm?

...because in all honesty......everything that simply blurs together ^^up there^^ isn't going to be made or sold cheaply at all......IF it can even be done at all.

And even if they are sold.......imagine that dude being totally peeved off when someone splats them with a PGP or something. Epic failure...his 'perfect gun' didn't help him much at all, did it?

[Lohman446]

That adds a whole new layer of complexity. For that to work you'd need to depend on the power feed system to provide adequate breach sealing. I.. think it would. I think it would work. I do not think it would lead to great consistency. You'd need to have a gate of some sort on the feed side to stop the post ball vacuum, or the good 'ol bernuli from sucking the next ball into the breach.

I don't see how the gun being fed by an injector setup would make a difference one way or another in this case. it would work no matter how air was delivered to the breach.

You have to seal off the breech one way or another though. It became a serious sticking point on the old discussion. One of the purposes of the bolt is to seal off the breech. A trapdoor discussion was part of it. A modified gated feed system was part of the discussion - like the Omen used but obviously a bit more, well sealing.

When you use an injector based system though you are getting rid of the bolt (I assume) so a method of sealing the chamber has to be devised. The Warp (and Halo etc.) all provide pretty good pressure. A ball will travel down the path of least resistance, I think it would be the barrel, and I think it might be able to seal off the breech. But, somewhere we have to figure out how exactly we are going to do it. Or at least address the issue in concept.

Using an injector concept may not be as expensive as you are thinking DRG. I am sure price point on this would be in the $1500 to $2000 area...

[sig11]

I don't see why there is any talk about loaders or feeding. You don't build a gun you build a test system. In my head it's a pipe mounted on a bench to see if the fuel injector concept will work.

This also makes talk about the impact on the game irrelevant. Most of the posts are thinking way way too far ahead.

[nerobro]

You have to seal off the breech one way or another though. It became a serious sticking point on the old discussion. One of the purposes of the bolt is to seal off the breech. A trapdoor discussion was part of it. A modified gated feed system was part of the discussion - like the Omen used but obviously a bit more, well sealing.

If you held the ball stack firmly, and used say.. a .710 feed pipe, I don't see why you'd need to actively seal the breach. You'd just need to make sure nothing overfed. Think halo-a detent. Trapdoors suck, becusae they require room to seal, and therefore disturb the ball stack more than a bolt does. Distrubing the ball stack was why mags broke paint for years. The omen uses a bolt, just with an indexed feeder. If you used an indexed feed, you wouldn't need to seriously seal the breach, so long as the whole feeder can take some pulsing.

Now imagine the mess if you have a breach break.....

When you use an injector based system though you are getting rid of the bolt (I assume) so a method of sealing the chamber has to be devised. The Warp (and Halo etc.) all provide pretty good pressure. A ball will travel down the path of least resistance, I think it would be the barrel, and I think it might be able to seal off the breech. But, somewhere we have to figure out how exactly we are going to do it. Or at least address the issue in concept.

There's been no serious dicussion of not using a bolt.

Using an injector concept may not be as expensive as you are thinking DRG. I am sure price point on this would be in the $1500 to $2000 area...

If the inejctors cost what I think they will... this could be a "quite cheap" design to market. However sig11 has a better point.

I don't see why there is any talk about loaders or feeding. You don't build a gun you build a test system. In my head it's a pipe mounted on a bench to see if the fuel injector concept will work.

This also makes talk about the impact on the game irrelevant. Most of the posts are thinking way way too far ahead.

And this is exactly why I need a lathe. Just cut a breach, stuff balls down the barrel, and see what we get with different injector timings. However, even before that, we need an injector. And that's why I keep calling bosch. :-)

[athomas]

The curve wouldn't need to be re-calibrated. That's something that would be constant.

... It would also have a chart that would allow it to lookup the proper valve duration for other pressures. That wouldn't change. :-)

That is the calibration curve. :)

I have actually been pondering this idea myself for a couple of years. I hope one of you makes a prototype that works. I certainly don't have the time to work on it myself right now.

[Newt]

All I can see when reading the last post or two is that scene from Ironman when he tries out the suit for the first time.

"10% flow...that should be about in the ballpark with a 200 psi flow rate equivalent..."
BOOM - 800 FPS

[nerobro]

All I can see when reading the last post or two is that scene from Ironman when he tries out the suit for the first time.

"10% flow...that should be about in the ballpark with a 200 psi flow rate equivalent..."
BOOM - 800 FPS

I fully expect to make paint feel pain many times before this is over. Many a breach will be splattered. Many a tank of air will be emptied. Spreadsheets will be filled. Databases populated.

[FinchMan]

I like this idea of replacing a mechanical valve with a piezoelectric valve. Would off the shelf fuel injectors have enough flow rate to run on other inputs besides liquid co2?

Perhaps you could make a piezoelectric regulator using an input and output pressure transducer, it may even actively compensate the flow rate based on the fire input from the trigger pulses.

Isn't it possible to affect the spin of a paintball by covering the porting on one side of a barrel? It must cause at least some asymmetry. It would be fun to pair it with motion tracking software to make a self aiming gun.

[nerobro]

I like this idea of replacing a mechanical valve with a piezoelectric valve. Would off the shelf fuel injectors have enough flow rate to run on other inputs besides liquid co2?

There's math a couple pages back. Yes. they flow enough for liquid co2. And likely enough for air too.

[Ninjeff]

Its sad hat i ref so much, and play so little, that my excitement is derived not from Tom's idea of new gun tech, but from the fact that he watches Top gear as well. 'Cause its the best show ever.




Man....i need to play more.

[nerobro]

why, why is it so hard to get responses? I've been trying with bosch for a week. I got one call back "hey, I can't help you." Which is really handy.

So, I moved on to the next mfg. Siemens. Directory assistance there gave me the number of contintnetal/vdo automotive. ..... so I call there. "I can't connect you with anybody if you don't have their name." They transfered me to sales, low and behold, voicemail as well.

What's a guy got to do to talk to someone? :-)