So I was Thinking about a New Gun Design.....

[vf-xx]

Nero,

PM me the info you have to give the Siemens guy. I have some contacts with Siemens Motors. They might be able to direct me to the right person.

The Siemens phone system is TERRIBLE. And even the sales offices agree. 0_0

[snoopay700]

Its sad hat i ref so much, and play so little, that my excitement is derived not from Tom's idea of new gun tech, but from the fact that he watches Top gear as well. 'Cause its the best show ever.




Man....i need to play more.

I thought that as well, i need to play more too. I miss top gear at school.

[RavishingEddie]

Dear Tom,

Thank you so much for starting the spark to these flame of ideas. I haven't been this exited since my inception of my integrated AK -47/Emag idea that I finished successfully. (EMAG-9)

I think your idea of a fuel injector type application makes sense and is a great place to start. That said I have also been quite worried of all the other ideas about ball spin and velocity control. All this just over complicates things and may lead to failure in the inception of your design.
What we should focus on first is to create a platform thats it! I am not trying to tell you how to do things and I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding, but if you simply created an air injection platform that achieved great consistency and no regulator needed, this would be a historic evolution in itself and a great platform to build all the other ideas on top of.

When I was building my Emag 9, the biggest problems I encountered were not ball spin or velocity fluctuations. The problems were weight and efficiency, sure it was an awesome looking gun, but a Marq or Ego would out value it with half the cost, weight and double the efficiency.
If the new platform allows for lighter weight, consistency, and no regulator needed it would be killer. I have also heard many people including myself complain about how the new guns all looking the same with swooping lines and bodies and how resemble toys more than guns. If your design looked anything similar to your Xmag bodies or the Karta body, it would seriously put a death grip on the market.

Just my 2 cents

[nerobro]

I got a call back from sales at siemens. they're doing some legwork for me. I should be getting a call from an engineer.

All of this work "just" to find out if we can conceivably power this with reasonable batteries..

[nerobro]

SCORE!!

I got through to someone useful at Bosch. Apperantly there's a lot of quite proprietary things that go with the peizo systems. Their driver circuitry is "near and dear" to their hearts. I took some wild stabs in the dark regarding what the problems could be, and it would seem that hitting the injectors to hard (electrically) can cause the crystals to fracture themselves.

I described the duration, and precision to which we needed to run our injection system, and the engineer agreed that the peizo system was pretty ideal for that. (I said 3-5ms duration, with repeatabilty down to less than half a percent)

It was suggested that we pick up an injector and give it a shot. The SAE's book "Diesel Engine Management", the 4th edition should have a chapter on peizo injection.

Of concern, were heating and lubrication of the injector. Something tells me that the sort of duty cycle that would be seen in a paintball gun, and the fact our guns are constantly decompressing air would both work in our favor, in regards to heating. Lubrication, could be a problem...

The injectors we're looking for are in both Audis and Daimler engines (read: Mercedes)

It was indicated that once we had something together, we could bring the proposal to Bosch, and they'd see what they could do to help.

So, next on the agenda:
Find "Diesel Engine Mangement, 4th ed"

Ugh. can't afford the book till Thursday. But, the book is available.

[RavishingEddie]

So, next on the agenda:
Find "Diesel Engine Mangement, 4th ed"

Ugh. can't afford the book till Thursday. But, the book is available.

Hey man I appreciate the research you are doing. Maybe we could all pitch in or something.

Are you trying to have Bosch design a fuel injection system specifically for this project or will you be using Daimler and Audi injectors?

Do you know the dimensions and weight?

Sorry for all the question, just a bit curious and would like to help with this as much as I can.

[nerobro]

well, right now the devices are designed for metering of fluids at 20,000psi. We'd be running air at a much lower pressure. So, that alone will let us make the housings smaller. I think the peizo stack itself is only a few inches. Since we don't need to isolate it from engine heat, there's a lot of shrinkage that can happen.

Now, this means re-engineering the whole thing for our purpose.

As it stands, I think we can "test" the design using stock diesel injectors. Which we should do! If that works... bosch just might be interested in producing the special injector design.

I do think we're getting ahead of ourselves again though. We need to get a testbed built and some sane driver ciruitry going so we can give this a whirl.

Anybody have a blown up diesel audi or TDI VW?

[Fred]

I don't, but the best place I can think of to look would be on vwvortex.com, or fourtitude.com (biggest vw and audi enthusiast sites with HUGE forum populations).

[om3n]

This is so exciting. It's awesome that Tom Kaye posts an idea on the internet about a theoretical paintball gun design, and then normal people take his idea and run with it. I really hope this concept works

[vf-xx]

Nero, how old do you think we can go for first stage poof of concept. Quick search yeilds some very inexpensive options if we look back into the late 80's early 90's...

[nerobro]

Well that's the kicker. It needs to be the Peizo acutated valves. They did electronic injection for years, but only recently did they go peizo. :-/ We'd need to do research to figure out more.

[vf-xx]

Ask your contact at Bosch?

Heck, for that matter, ask them if it would be possible to get one or two for proof of concept testing.

Never hurts to ask.

Edit: Found a 2004 Golf Injector for sub $300

[DevilMan]

Hey Nero... just found this online... may be another avenue of contact to get a free sample to try out.



It don't look that large at all, though I could be mistaken.

The rest of the info can be found here ~> http://green.autoblog.com/2008/05/05...-diesels-even/

I'm watching and hoping I can find something to help make this a reality. We'll see.

DM

[RavishingEddie]

Without feedback electronic control is useless in my opinion. I have come up with an idea to measure the velocity WITHOUT using eyes, sensors on the barrel or anything ugly. I would envision that you push the "reset velocity" button and start firing the gun over a crono. The velocity will go up with every shot and when you hit 280 or 300 FPS you stop firing and now the gun has the info it needs to adjust for velocity.

I was reading through the posts and I found this sentence from Mr. Kaye to be very satisfying. The reason is because if he actually knows a way to adjust the velocity, then
it is one road block out of the way for this project. It isn't about how differen't it is from
current marker velocity adjustment, but more like a problem out of the way for this project.
Thank you Tom!

First question is how will the bolt action work? If the air shoots out of the Injector, which I believe is substitute for the valve then would we even need a bolt? Could the ball just load into the chamber and be shot?

How much voltage does the injector require?

[vf-xx]

First question is how will the bolt action work? If the air shoots out of the Injector, which I believe is substitute for the valve then would we even need a bolt? Could the ball just load into the chamber and be shot?

you'd get alot of air blowing out the feedneck if you don't have a bolt or a gate of some-sort.

Inital thoughts were to use a mag bolt. Mostly cause it's AGD, and there's no reason it wouldn't work. On the plus side, this set up would remove the sear.

How much voltage does the injector require?

I believe that's one of the bigger questions we still don't know.