So I was Thinking about a New Gun Design.....

[vf-xx]

Ahh, but see, he's saying for an efficency point you'd have to integrate a chrony.

I'd pass on the spin thing for the inital generation of the gun. TBH, you could release a whole series of guns with this idea. Just implement /sell at each stage.

Stage 1 being an injection style firing system, then move on from there.

This gun is sounding very complex from the get go. I think it could be done and it does sound interesting.

As to the idea about weighing the balls: not sure you can really do that for the following reasons:
1) Forcefeed loaders
2) The gun isn't always going to be perfectly vertical.

[mostpeople]

Nice

Tom, I hope you do get back into the sport that you so obviously love/loved. I know if you do you will have the complete support of this community as you always have.

Oh and I'll take SN0002 in dust black kthx.

[nerobro]

To do the injection could be very simple. A nearly off the shelf injector, and some driver circuitry. Especially with using liquid co2 feeding a diesel injector. That's a junkyard solution and cheap.

it's also dead simple. The gun would need three moving parts at that point. The injector pintle, a solionins to move the bolt, and a ram to move the bolt.

I agree, weighing balls is a losing battle. It adds another layer of "easy to break" into the system. the gun orientation could be compensated for, as could gun movements. however it takes some time for the system to settle to get an accurate weight. you'd need to add a gyro and orentation sensors. A system to get accurate weights of paintballs at 20 rounds per second would be a heck of a project in and of itself. .... That said I can think of a couple ways to do it, reliably. none of them are small or simple.

Like "normal" paintball guns, I think the gun would need to operate blind. Use a programed amount of gas for all paintballs, instead of compensating for anything.

the only sensor I think would be "sane" to have that could tell us about ball acceleration would be a fast acting pressure transducer. And I say sane, only loosely. It's an expensive and large part. But it also means not putting eyes down the barrel.

[mostpeople]

My guess is that the ball would simply bounce off the other side of the barrel, and bounce back. Plus with everyone going slightly underbore for efficiency it kind of a moot point?

[nerobro]

That's why I suggested a groove. A groove could keep the ball against the fall wall long enough to be effective. Provided you could get even gas release along the groove. But..... that would require testing :-)

[Ratt]

So why would I mention really cool designs on a pubic forum? Because I don't think there are any companies left in this industry with the ability to conceive, design and then finance a truly revolutionary product at this time. There are some guys with the ability (Chris Goddard and Simon come to mind) but there are no companies that I would have confidence in that could do it.

Just thinking out loud.....

AGD

Honestly, Tom...why did you mention this stuff here? Why don't you just do it (we all know that you are the man to pull this off), patent the technology/designs, and let every other marker company use it without paying royalties...EXCEPT for SP...they would have to pay out the booty in royalties.

Seriously, Tom...when are you going to do it? Or...have you already done it...

BTW...I'll take SN0003, in Tequila Fade...

[Chronobreak]

nero, see i TOLD you to visit the forums more often

AGD, Dont give up....we can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel

Glad to hear ideas flowing

[snoopay700]

thats how some people claimed backspin bolts work, push the ball up against the top of barrel to get them to spin.

just giving you a hard time tom, im very pleased to see you mulling these ideas around. i would love to dream that something was in the works ...

Well he was talking about a 3rd port in the breech to get this started i think, which could possibly work but it would only cause intense friction for the time that the port is pushing that against the side of the barrel and it would quickly diminish as the ball continued down the barrel. You could probably get some spin this way but i doubt it would be comparable to the apex.

Sorry for not reading the rest of this thread, i have diff. eq. homework i should be doing, but Tom i think i need to send you another email regarding my design, it has drastically changed since the last time i showed you. I definitely have some questions, so if you wouldn't mind if i email you to take a look at it let me know.

[Fred]

I think it's a pretty rad idea... I've done a bit of reading on the injectors my VW is running (direct injection piezo-electric doohickeys) and its a pretty amazing technology.... and I know they're running REALLY high pressure.

Cleaning up a marker by running just high pressure would be nice just by itself... reduce the number of moving parts, and potential leaks would be awesome too.

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR TOM!?!

[temps]

I'm just thinking..
What affects the fps of a paintball? Air Pressure and Volume..
How do we control these variables? Regulators and Dwell..

I've always thought that inconstancy of a paintball gun was caused by two main issues, paint and the regulator supplying the dump chamber with either less or more pressure for each shot. Am I correct on this?

So if we put an electrical sensor in the dump chamber to measure the pressure right before a shot (and therefore calculate an estimated fps based on that pressure and volume).. couldn't we then automatically adjust the dwell to compensate for higher and lower pressures?

In the case of a matrix/intimidator where the lpr pressure also affects the fps that would be a good spot for a sensor also... In the case of the intimidator we have gauges to tell us what the lpr and hpr is set at.. so how hard would it be to replace those with electronic sensors??? after that its just a matter of coding... might be the easiest way to get a proof of concept..

[SN toter]

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR TOM!?!

^^^What he said!

[Dend78]

hmm how did i miss this one i see one issue with this spin/chrony idea, wouldnt the friction and the fact that no paintabll is exactly the same cause some major issues? since the sensor would be trying to take into count the ball from the previous shot it would adjust to try to either compensate for that shot which would be different from the last shot causing inconsistency every shot. one would almost have to make a self sizing barrel or better yet more consistent paint

other than that lil bit i catch there everything else seems like a great idea

[Schmitti]

Dend... depends who you ask.. some people say there is no friction relationship between the ball and barrel

I'm digging the groove idea... even if it was a short section of straight rifling (your control bore) that allowed the air to be directed along the groove... with a rotating bolt (sorry I'm trying to concentrate on too many things.. with out enough sleep...zzz) that can direct that flow. If you slotted the bolt radially and the air came out of the slot from center to barrel id that would possibly help.

I need to sit and draw this out. An engineers nightmare is to start thinking it through with out pen and paper.. I always forget some factor or really important bit.

E

[Lohman446]

Tom, when you, Glenn Palmer, and various others revolutionized the industry you did not do so by depending on the big companies. You did so through your own brilliance, hard work, and perseverence. You risked your own money to do so, and considering the business you and others built it was not that much money. It was intelligence, hard work, and desire that drove you.

The next big thing like what you describe will not come from some 9-5 engineer at a company, but from someone who spends countless hours of there own blood, sweat, and tears likely in their own garage or moonlighting it as a secondary project (ala AKA) in an established busines that has nothing to do with paintball.

[vf-xx]

The next big thing like what you describe will not come from some 9-5 engineer at a company, but from someone who spends countless hours of there own blood, sweat, and tears likely in their own garage or moonlighting it as a secondary project (ala AKA) in an established busines that has nothing to do with paintball.

Which is why he released the idea here. So that someone who has the time and the drive will get started on it

IIRC, Tom's big on progressing the industry / sport / whatever else you call it. I think it's more important that the idea is explored and possibly produced than a matter of who does it.