ANGEL v.s. impulse ?

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 03:43 PM

Verbal,
Yes I'm talking high ROF with stock internals or custom internals!! And while an impulse doesnt have much kick you dont need alot for trigger bounce if your trigger is set short enough.

Mr.Fixitx

**speedyejl** · 03-09-2003, 03:45 PM

A stock Impulse as an Aluminum Hammer, Steel Bolt Pin, Aluminum Bolt, and a steel rod. Which is around 1500gms, mine is at around 1100gms and I still have kick. Its miunute but its noticble non the less. Little kick makes a gun in a persons hands more accurate because the balls will land the same place given everything else is consistent and in good matches. Personally I rather have a marker with little kick and a poor trigger than than the other way around. Kick is bad, you can more than compensate for the lack of trigger bounce with getting a good trigger. Why do you think Matrixes are so hot? They don't have any mechanical parts so they have almost no kick.

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 03:48 PM

ummm speedyejl the matrix has moving parts like a bolt... It has 13 interal o-rings that get wear from movement of the spool valve. None the less the matrix has very very little kick as well.

Mr.Fixitx

**minimag187** · 03-09-2003, 03:49 PM

YOu must have not looked very good, 2k3 LCD's and Ir3s are set to 20BPS from the factory.....

**speedyejl** · 03-09-2003, 03:50 PM

Its not mechanical it pnuematic. Mechanical is like a hammer hitting a valve open, pneumatic is like in the matrix air moving the bolt back and forth. The bolt does hit the ball but that causes very, very little kick since the ball is floating freely and isn't stuck on the gun.

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 03:52 PM

speedyejl,
the ball floats freely???? wtf are you talking about it sits in the breach unti the bolt hits it just like other paintball markers.

Mr.Fixitx

**speedyejl** · 03-09-2003, 03:53 PM

It depends where they are sold, WDP complies to ASTM standards (not laws) which keeps thier guns to 13bps in certain countries. The IR3 is also advertised with 26 firing modes.

**speedyejl** · 03-09-2003, 03:56 PM

By the ball floats freely I meant that its not bolted in the breech with screws or something so that when the bolt hits it gives an enormus amount of resistance. The bolt dosen't have a hard time at all pushing the ball into the barrel, then the air does the rest which creates a small amount of back preassure but its not noticable. When you use a Matrix its deciving because normally your mind register a shot when you feel the hammer get hit and thus kick. With a Matrix you here the solniod click twice and you think you are firing faster than you are. Its a weird feeling.

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 03:59 PM

ummm.......ok I havent recently bolted my paintball in the breach with screws but if you say so.........

**Verbal138** · 03-09-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by speedyejl

The Impulse does have kick, mine does and my internals are pretty damn light around 1100grams.

Pulling a trigger 20 times a second is hard, but its feasible. I can get my Impulse to beep pretty easily (when mine beeps its hitting 13.7bps).

O and bud (these are the things which really were ignorant, or stupid I'm not sure in your case), you said Angels can easily shoot 20bps thats only aftermarket Angels like Dark, Impact, etc,

Explain how a stock Impulse feels flimsy? Its made of aluminum the same stuff that Angels are made of!

Also Angels w.o a pds chop as much as an Impulse will if you are firing at the same speed with both.

Another thing you said is preassure, Angels run at a higher preassure than Impulses out of the box. Besides the fact that saying a gun is lower preassure than another means nothing, preassure between two guns has no bearing at all.

Last thing if Impulses aren't in the upper tier, how come they are the gun of choice for Strange, AA, AA2, Nasty, GZ Black and Silver?

1. Bull. Any stock impulse, and everyother impulse I've ever shot, had very minimal to no kick.

2. If you think pulling a trigger 20 times a second is feasible without any assistance from the gun, than you are the idiot are accusing me of.

3. Sorry, but check the stats from WDP. An IR3 can be set for 20bps, and the LCD 2k3 isn't capped, so I would assume it woud be the same.

4. What??? Many cheap guns are made of aluminum and they still feel cheap. Go read any review on the angel and I can guarantee you with in the first paragraph they will comment on how good the gun feels, how 'solid' it is or how it feels like a million bucks etc...

5. Don't think so. Last year I was filling in on a team and two of the guys had impulses. They were breaking paint all day. I couldn't tell you if they were chopping or the higher bolt pressure was breaking the balls in the barrell - as the paint was unusually brittle.

6. Angels run at a lower bolt pressure, and this does help quite a bit when playing with brittle paint. I've heard cocker guys forever argue that it flatens their trajectory, but I have a hard time believing that.

7. Well, from what I've heard the AA's are switching back largely to the new shocker, and I'm sure some of the other teams will to, but if you want to compare teams.... let's see the best team in professional paintball is Dynasty, hands down, and look what they shoot.

**tommyd46290** · 03-09-2003, 04:05 PM

eqipment and sponsors dont win games for a team. It takes skill. You give the dynasty guys and gun that doesnt chop and shoots decent they will do the same.

**Verbal138** · 03-09-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by MrFixitx
Verbal why dont you find some documentation showing the valve pressure of an Angel instead of just saying its lower pressure?? Back up your claim, I find that after a quick search on other forum sites that the valve pressure of an angel is 350ish PSI much higher than an impulse valve pressure.

2. ROF is based on the USER NOT THE GUN!!! please realise 2 guns both with a less than 1mm trigger pull both with the ablity of having massive trigger bounce will both be able to hit a high ROF!

Mr.Fixitx

I'm not saying the valve pressure is 85-95, I'm saying the bolt pressure is. If you still want me to find a link, let me know. The low bolt pressure is what makes the angel real friendly with brittle paint.

2. If the trigger is less than 1mm, you are actually going to reduce the rate of fire, as you need a little room to really hit a prolonged sweet spot. The reason the angel is faster is because it has a much larger sweet spot and can be hit very easily. Even than impulse website that you linked said that they can only can get significant bounce on accident.

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 04:10 PM

ok buy a clue here, pro teams play with what their sponsors allow them to!! IF your sponsored by WDP you really dont have a choice but to shoot an Angel, if your sponsored by WGP your going to shoot a cocker!!

Impulse have kick it doesnt matter if its a little or alot if you have even a slight amout of kick it lets you ahcive trigger bounce if you set your trigger properly. What does it really mater if it has a lot of kick vs an Angel or a little kick.

3. 20bps without trigger bounce I agree is almost if not totally impossible

4. Guess what on reviews of spyders cockers and impulse people have all said "if feels well built" big deal.

5. as for this well at 85psi bolt pressure on an angel thats still enough to break brittle paint clean in half. So what if you friends hoppers couldnt keep up or they were having barrel breaks, I was at a tourney in november where one guy with an angel could only get about 1 shot out of 4 to make it out of his barrel intact. Doesnt mean that angels suck just that he was having problems with paint.

7. as for AA's guess what they are sponsored by smart parts they can shoot what smart parts allows them to or tells them to, for all you know smart parts may want to promote the 2k3 shocker and be forcing them to shoot it.

**MrFixitx** · 03-09-2003, 04:14 PM

Verbal read the faq again it says usually trigger bounce is an accident it doesnt say "it only happens by accident" or any such thing. I've have seen numerous impulse set to have a sweet spot where they can pull 16+ bps by holding the trigger. This includes impulses with stock internals and impulses such as the RAT impulse which has a lighter bolt.

And 95 psi will still slice brittle paint in half.

Mr.Fixitx

**Verbal138** · 03-09-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by speedyejl
A stock Impulse as an Aluminum Hammer, Steel Bolt Pin, Aluminum Bolt, and a steel rod. Which is around 1500gms, mine is at around 1100gms and I still have kick. Its miunute but its noticble non the less. Little kick makes a gun in a persons hands more accurate because the balls will land the same place given everything else is consistent and in good matches.

Ahh.... less weight means less mass to dissipate recoil, which equals a greater kick.

As far as kick making a gun less accurate, only if you're a newb and aren't use to it. A .45 Colt kicks quite a bit, but is very accurate with someone who knows how to shoot it. So sorry, but your claim is completely bull.

ANGEL v.s. impulse ?

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