ANGEL v.s. impulse ?

[MrFixitx]

Verbal,
Umm less wieght means less recoil. Recoil is based on the fact that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Its part of physics perhaps you've heard of it.

So if you have something weigh 1500grains hit the valve and bounce back it will have more energy than something that weights 1100 grains and because less inital energy hit the valve so there is less energy to push back thus less recoil.

As for a colt 45 being accurate, try holding one and pulling 10 shots per second and see how tight your target grouping is then.

Mr.Fixitx

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by MrFixitx


ok buy a clue here, pro teams play with what their sponsors allow them to!! IF your sponsored by WDP you really dont have a choice but to shoot an Angel, if your sponsored by WGP your going to shoot a cocker!!

Impulse have kick it doesnt matter if its a little or alot if you have even a slight amout of kick it lets you ahcive trigger bounce if you set your trigger properly. What does it really mater if it has a lot of kick vs an Angel or a little kick.

4. Guess what on reviews of spyders cockers and impulse people have all said "if feels well built" big deal.

5. as for this well at 85psi bolt pressure on an angel thats still enough to break brittle paint clean in half. So what if you friends hoppers couldnt keep up or they were having barrel breaks, I was at a tourney in november where one guy with an angel could only get about 1 shot out of 4 to make it out of his barrel intact. Doesnt mean that angels suck just that he was having problems with paint.

7. as for AA's guess what they are sponsored by smart parts they can shoot what smart parts allows them to or tells them to, for all you know smart parts may want to promote the 2k3 shocker and be forcing them to shoot it.

[MrFixitx]

Lets see

A. I never said stock impulse triggers were good and they were reviewing the stock impulse. STock impulse triggers are very long but spending $30 on a new trigger fixes that whole problem.

B. I never refernced a specific review of the impulse.

c. 90psi will chop a ball people can play whole weekends on a spyder running at 800 psi and not break a ball. Just because someone doesnt break a ball all weekend doesnt mean much. It could mean they had good paint and a loader that was keeping up with their ROF.

D. 85 psi is not that low for a cocker. If you want to get a low cocking pressure free flows run 30psi and under, or you can just buy their hammer and springs kit and get just about any cocker to under 50 psi with it.

Mr.Fixitx

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by MrFixitx
Verbal,
Umm less wieght means less recoil. Recoil is based on the fact that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Its part of physics perhaps you've heard of it.

So if you have something weigh 1500grains hit the valve and bounce back it will have more energy than something that weights 1100 grains and because less inital energy hit the valve so there is less energy to push back thus less recoil.

As for a colt 45 being accurate, try holding one and pulling 10 shots per second and see how tight your target grouping is then.

Mr.Fixitx

Right.... that's why I can shoot a very light berreta shotgun and have it get jumpy as hell, or I can shoot an older weighted down browning and have it be steady as hell. Sorry, but as long as the force stays the same - IE discharging the marker or gun - the heavier the marker/gun is the less kick you will have. It's the same principal behind pushing something - we'll say a grocery cart. When the grocery cart is empty it is easy to push. Load it with a few sandbags and use the same amount of energey used to pused the empty cart and the cart will either not move or move at a much slower rate. Same thing with recoil.

As for the colt, your analogy is fundamentally flawed. The kick of a 45 is easily 5+ times that of an angel, so it would be inaccurate to try and shoot at the same ROF. However, I know plenty of people who can get a very tight grouping at 5-6 shots a second with a 45. Again it comes down to knowing the marker/gun.

[tommyd46290]

Originally posted by Verbal138
Ahh.... less weight means less mass to dissipate recoil, which equals a greater kick.

idiot. you need to take some damn physics classes. Less weight slamming back and fourth=less recoil newton's third law at work. If you can prove Sir Issaic Newton wrong then then I will shut up but untill then you are an idiot and no absolutly nothing about what you are speaking of.

[MrFixitx]

Verbal I give up, your beyond help if I could I would give you a clue but I dont think you would know what it was.

with heavier internals its not like a grocier carts that you cant push as far, it still moves the same distance as lighter internals, kick is from the weight of the internals hiting the valve and returning to the rest posistion. Try and be a blocker for a 120lb guy running at you full speed vs a 300 lb guy running at you at the same speed. Your going to feel that 300lbd hitting you alot more. Same thing with kick, you feel the heavier internals hitting the valve more than you do with lighter internals.

Thats it for this thread I give up, buy a clue, find a clue find someone to knock some sense into you, talk to a physic proffessor do something!!!

P.S. Tommyd its nice to see someone has some common sense around here!

[tommyd46290]

your above example makes sense. But if i hit you in the face with a 12 ounce hammer and a 20 pound sledge which do you think would have greater effect?

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by MrFixitx
Lets see

A. I never said stock impulse triggers were good and they were reviewing the stock impulse. STock impulse triggers are very long but spending $30 on a new trigger fixes that whole problem.

B. I never refernced a specific review of the impulse.

c. 90psi will chop a ball people can play whole weekends on a spyder running at 800 psi and not break a ball. Just because someone doesnt break a ball all weekend doesnt mean much. It could mean they had good paint and a loader that was keeping up with their ROF.

D. 85 psi is not that low for a cocker. If you want to get a low cocking pressure free flows run 30psi and under, or you can just buy their hammer and springs kit and get just about any cocker to under 50 psi with it.

Mr.Fixitx

A. Again, the true test of a marker is it's stock form. You can always mod something, but something that is better in stock form (in this case the angel)is only going to be better when it is moded. Other than that, I just thought it was funny that they stated how crappy the trigger was under impressions.

B. I know you didn't, that's because one doesn't exist, or many don't exist. The whole point of my argument was that every review I have ever read on the angel has mentioned - often times MANY times - how good and 'solid' the angel feels.

C. 85-95 PSI is lower than most other markers out there, and is not prone to breaking paint. To quote PBSTAR "It is pretty clear that the Angel rarely breaks paint."

D. Funny, because I said NON-COCKER!!!! That's your horrid comprehension skills acting up again.

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by MrFixitx
Same thing with kick, you feel the heavier internals hitting the valve more than you do with lighter internals.

Well, that would be a combination of me not reading what he reduced the weight of and your horrible comprehension skills again. What I said was:

>"Sorry, but as long as the force stays the same.."

By reducing the weight of the moving internals you would be reducing the force, I just didn't pay attention to what he reduced the weight of. I guess your horrid comprehension skills rubbed off on me.

[tobz]

ahem

mykroft - my name is tobz, not todz

You backed up my point earlier by stating a point, and then backing it up with zero information whatsoever. Please tell me how an upgraded cocker is far superior to a non upgraded one. Not too mention, how a raced/Ebladed cocker with upgrades is different than a raced/Ebladed cocker without upgrades. I will be looking forward to your post. Thanks.

tobz

[speedyejl]

Verbal, lets say you had a 12 gauge that fired in 3 round bursts going at 6rps. Now shoot at a point target the size of a skeet. I am willing to bet you can't hit that target 3 times in a row. There kick makes a gun less acurate.

Anyhow just incase anyone is reading this for information let me clear some things up. Just assume that everything verbal says is wrong, he has made so many false statements that you will be doing yourself a favor as apose to trying to figure out what is real and not.

Statements which are wrong, or just ignorant/stupid:

Less internal weight in an Impulse means more kick

Its fair to compare the max potential of an Impulse and Angle when using a stock Impulse for the Impulse side

You based the ability of two guns on tests with different variables being used, and no control

You have said that the bolt preassure of an Angel is friendly with brittle paint, when its around 80psi which is easy enough to cut even the hardest shell paint straight in half

You like to qutoe the Angel feels more solid, how can two things made of the same material feel more solid than the other? Let me give you a block of aluminum from the WDP plant and one from SP, tell me which feels better. None the less I thought we were discusing performance not asthetics.

You made a generalization about trigger settings as to reflect all people. Trigger settings are a very, very personal thing, its preference.

You said the Angel has a larger sweet spot, both Impulses and Angels hit micro swithces which are almost identical...

You claim that its possible to have lack of kick on an Impulse, when there is valve which is getting hit by something heavy called a hammer

YOU SAID THAT IMPULSES HAVE MORE RANGE

You said that NOBODY can get past 20bps, check around AO there is a video of Butters hitting 25bps

[mykroft]

Verbal:

I've shot a CLASS, it offers nothing but milling and a trigger over a stock, ditto the Dark IR3 and the Cobra. Aftermarket Angels are merely different milling jobs and a different trigger. Aftermarket Impulses are significantly different markers from stock.

I've played with a Strange Impy, It's significantly faster than any Angel I've ever run across in real world terms, feels nearly as fast as a Matrix.

tobz:

Higher flow internals (Red or Tornado Valve)allow faster cyclic rate without shootdown. Smoother, larger diameter ram allows faster cycling at same bolt pressure (More pressure is exerted on the Ram piston if it is larger, smoother piston requires less pressure to move), lighter delrin bolt and trimmed backblock allow faster cyclic rate due to less moving mass, lighter matched LP springs allow lower ram pressure (or faster cyclic at same pressure). LP internals are significantly more efficient when coupled with a high-flow bolt, allowing more shots off one fill. The milling, apart from the inherently lighter weight and potential cyclic rate improvements of P-block and short-block cockers, is merely cosmetic.

While the stock parts on a cocker are far better than they used to be, there's a simple reason people upgrade the internals, bolt and pneumatics. The stock parts still aren't that great.

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by speedyejl


Verbal, lets say you had a 12 gauge that fired in 3 round bursts going at 6rps. Now shoot at a point target the size of a skeet. I am willing to bet you can't hit that target 3 times in a row. There kick makes a gun less acurate.

Less internal weight in an Impulse means more kick

Its fair to compare the max potential of an Impulse and Angle when using a stock Impulse for the Impulse side

You based the ability of two guns on tests with different variables being used, and no control

You have said that the bolt preassure of an Angel is friendly with brittle paint, when its around 80psi which is easy enough to cut even the hardest shell paint straight in half

You like to qutoe the Angel feels more solid, how can two things made of the same material feel more solid than the other?

You made a generalization about trigger settings as to reflect all people. Trigger settings are a very, very personal thing, its preference.

You said the Angel has a larger sweet spot, both Impulses and Angels hit micro swithces which are almost identical...

You claim that its possible to have lack of kick on an Impulse, when there is valve which is getting hit by something heavy called a hammer

YOU SAID THAT IMPULSES HAVE MORE RANGE

You said that NOBODY can get past 20bps, check around AO there is a video of Butters hitting 25bps

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by mykroft
Verbal:

I've shot a CLASS, it offers nothing but milling and a trigger over a stock, ditto the Dark IR3 and the Cobra. Aftermarket Angels are merely different milling jobs and a different trigger. Aftermarket Impulses are significantly different markers from stock.

I've played with a Strange Impy, It's significantly faster than any Angel I've ever run across in real world terms, feels nearly as fast as a Matrix.

The CLASS angel I shot had a MUCH tighter trigger, and was very easy to get cycling very fast due to the trigger bounce. A few years back Chris Lasoya let me borrow his gun for a tourny in castle rock, co, and believe me it was MUCH easier to hit the sweet spot on that gun than any angel I've ever shot. The strange impulse I cycled in the chrono area was nowhere near that fast, maybe without the sweet spot, but not overall.

[cris8762]

OMG!! ARGH!! verbal...please get help..go talk to an airsmith and tell him all the stuff ur saying right now.... he'd probably make you leave his shop..lol

omg i cant stop laughing about what you're trying to say right now!

shartley or AGD or someone elxe please come in and show him the light..please!!