For Those Who Couldn't Wait.....(x-mag)

[GT]

Manike,
Thanks for the post. I finally have read something that makes sense on why we see such low production numbers from AGD. It is nice to finally see some enlightning posts inside of senseless posts filled with 'grin and bare it' I understand about making my posts seem like what i say is this case however it is incorrect. It was incorrect however it did have the effect and out come I wanted .

Now the next battle is to get someone to sticky this so that we dont have the same topic come up week after week with the same awful replies.
jb

[Bartleby]

We all as consumers have established the "silent hand". If you want something, you reach into your wallet and pull out the money. If you do not want something, you put your wallet away. This is the way companies judge whether or not to produce and how much or little to produce, it is not by open conversation from a bunch of forum members thinking they all know the intricacies of creating and maintaining a paintball company in a profitable way.

My suggestion to all of you is, if you want the X-Mag, and you're willing to pay for it AND wait for it, then do so and tell Mr. Kaye you are supportive of his business by doing so.

However, if you want the X-Mag and are willing to pay for it but are UNwilling to wait for it, then don't.

It is a waste of time to sit here and argue about the ins and outs of running a business like AGD or AGDE. Do not harass Mr. Kaye for "not meeting the demand" and do not attempt to understand the reasoning for the current situation without having firsthand experience already. Use the power of the "silent hand" and show your appreciation or disapproval (whichever it may be) of the company. You do not flat-out attack a man that is trying to GIVE YOU the best quality product while still trying to achieve efficiency.

-Aaron

[GT]

Originally posted by Bartleby



It is a waste of time to sit here and argue about the ins and outs of running a business like AGD or AGDE. Do not harass Mr. Kaye for "not meeting the demand" and do not attempt to understand the reasoning for the current situation without having firsthand experience already.

-Aaron

Aaron,
hmm where should I start? I think it is guys like you who drive people away from message boards like this. You might want to open your mind a bit before you click on the 'post' button.

First,
I can post what I want to Mr. Kaye. He has granted almost unlimited access to the members of this board. Now I wont post or PM him something offensive however I will question what I like. I would also like to thank Tom, AGD, and all the mods of this board for allowing this access, I hope it continues, in good faith, for the future.

Second,
I fail to understand why it is improper to ask about the Xmag production. If you havnt noticed AO is a pretty tight nit group, a brotherhood if you will. In fact I give greater trade statues for my equip. to those whom do post regularly. Again if you want to be a sheep and follow along with the blinders on, fine with me. Trust me I think my poor little mind can handle sistuation. (BTW if you missed it Manike already posted why things are the way they are so maybe I(we) are not the simple minded here)

Third,
I like the silent hand comment. kinda like Money talks and BS walks. BTW: I do, as well as others, have my silent hand ready.

jb

[Marek]

Originally posted by gtrsi
Now I wont post or PM him something offensive however I will question what I like. I would also like to thank Tom, AGD, and all the mods of this board for allowing this access, I hope it continues, in good faith, for the future.

That's a great statement. I love that. This is thread, from your explanation in your first post, is a gauge for Tom Kaye to see on how many ppl would have bought an X-Mag but couldn't wait. That's not offensive, sure it's not.

How are you questioning what you like? If you really wanted the gun, then you should have been able to wait. You should read Tom's post again, because he even mentions that some places had them in stock, yes in stock, and never sold. What did you expect, that he would come and defend himself against this crap? Damn man, look up the word tact. You treat this as "information" for you, but you don't realize who it offends.

[freek133]

"if you really wanted the gun, you should have been able to wait"

Lets change that up a bit,

"if you really would like to have the gun, then you could purchase it when one becomes available to you"

Theres that mentality again, please try to stop telling people what they should do.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing another marker not made by agd... whether your on the waitlist for the xmag or not. What is wrong is people on this thread and in AO's forums telling others that it is wrong. Thats the point im trying to make, im not for or against people whining about when they get their gun, though I feel bad for the mods, they have to look through threads like these quite a bit nowadays.

This thread I believe, was started with good intentions, on finding out what some people had decided to try in their wait for an xmag. Thats just my opinion, based on what I read, yep marek... I think about what im gonna say, like alot of people on ao do, making it probably the best paintball forum on the net.

[GT]

Originally posted by Marek


That's a great statement. I love that. This is thread, from your explanation in your first post, is a gauge for Tom Kaye to see on how many ppl would have bought an X-Mag but couldn't wait. That's not offensive, sure it's not.

How are you questioning what you like? If you really wanted the gun, then you should have been able to wait. You should read Tom's post again, because he even mentions that some places had them in stock, yes in stock, and never sold. What did you expect, that he would come and defend himself against this crap? Damn man, look up the word tact. You treat this as "information" for you, but you don't realize who it offends.

first,
learn to read, I didnt start this thread.

Second,
What store has them in stock? Or was this some kind of yea we had them in stock but no one knew about them kinda things? Or were they instock at some store in po'dunk texas where even spending 100 bucks on a marker is a splurge. About a month ago after the completion of the last batch I logged on to AO and found a sticky where 3 were unclaimed at a retail store. guess what by the time I had read through the thread and got the phone number they were gone. lets not *quack quack* here, its a hot gun with a hot following. If the location appears on here that has one for sale it is gone in a matter of minutes.

third,
all I am asking is what takes so long to build a gun that was released 10 months ago? The simple facts, why is that so hard to get out of person(s) that know the answer and then make it a sticky?

Marek,
I am clueless as to why you feel the need to post useless dribble. You want to know what I really think?

About 2 days ago I started playing around in PS for the banner contest. I noticed that others, as well as myself, were doing all these cool desgins around the Xmag, and rightfully so its a great 'gun. However I become increasingly uncomfartable using the Xmag as the center piece. I truly believe that if you are going to show a product that it must be one that the consumer can actually buy. Wild idea I know. So then I began to search around AO and started reading some of the posts about getting an Xmag and the wait associated with 'the list'. I have decided that waitning for a 1400 product is something I dont want to do, why? Well for one it seems that each batch is different in some way, so I am kinda waiting for the 'final' desgin or evolution of the product and maybe a day were you can order it dirrectly from AGD and at your doorstep a few days later. I am also still unsure on what color to get, but that can be solved at anytime.

I think we already have an idea of the scope of the problem according some of the other posts. Someone please sticky a topic on such and let this post die.

jb

*Warning: No Cussing* -Miscue

[Marek]

I need to read? When did I ever write that you started this thread? You continue in this thread, with the same questions, yet the purpose of this entire thread was to show Tom Kaye. That is offensive. There are a several posts about the X-Mag, all saying the same thing. Tom Kaye writes a thread explaining his thoughts and what is going on. Yet, you still continue with this thread, the same thing over and over again.

Posted by Tom Kaye
Some facts about the xmags, we are currently 300 on backorder and its not going up. This is not a big backorder by any standards. We have 500 machined bodies in the pipeline right now. This is a prudent number in process for this level of backorders considering its such an expensive product. While AO has been complaining, there have been multiple dealers that have had these guns sitting on the wall and not selling. Adventure Games NH had the first 9 to come off the assembly line with no preorders. She wanted to cut it back to two but I told her to come to the AO dealers section and sell them. She did and got no takers in the auction she set up, she only took two. More were sitting at Predator Marketing in CA for weeks until an AO guy found them and bought them. This is even after I made a personal appearance out there to show them the marker and get them charged about it. Fox River Games home of our sponsored team Swarm had them sitting on the wall for weeks until AO found them there too.

That is what I was referring too. I guess you must have tunnel vision. There might be great demand here on AO, but you think the rest of the paintball community is like AO? I live in Timmy country, and alot of ppl are impressed with the X-Mags, but I have heard maybe one or two ppl wanting or searching for one. Im sorry to say, but that is a fact. But then again, you dont see me starting a thread or contributing to a thread that posts that for Tom Kaye to read.

Now, want to get technical, sure let's. The gun came out about 2 years ago, sold in the UK and Europe, and then came to the US. As explained by manike and others, there is a lot to take into consideration. The body is not the only thing to make, but that seems to be your only question about the delay. Do I know what the delay is? No. Then again, I have a Timmy and could care less. I am not interested in getting or waiting or whatever. My only point is have more respect. Semantics aside, the wording makes very little difference. Change up my wording any way you want, but the fact and point stays the same. Take it as you will, I could care less. Dribble or not, its up to you. Have a great night.

[GT]

You dont get it, my questions have already been answered!!!! What have you missed?

I am not here to show Tom jack. I just wanted to know what takes so long to get these guns in the hands of folks over here on AO. If I wanted to show him something I would try email, pm, or a phone call. I am sure he loves to chat with folks from the AO community

Originally posted by Marek

Do I know what the delay is? No. Then again, I have a Timmy and could care less.

hmmm... then why did you post? I am done with this topic, becuase I have gotten what I came for. If you would like to give me a lesson in 'respect' feel free to do so via pm, email or aim. Also note that if I was being disrepectful in anyway I am sure I would have gotten a PM from someone here, read mod or AGD himself, but that didnt happen.

jb

[Marek]

I posted cuz what i read was not tasteful. There are alot of ppl that dont shoot mags or looking for an xmag on here. I am one of thos ppl.

[Peach]

Okay... First: If people comment on how they would "love to buy a product," then it becomes available, and then no-one buys it.ie: Roller triggers. If the question of, "What marker did you buy because you couldn't wait for an xmag" seems to bee on the same page in superficial meaning, why would people answer you thruthfully, if they don't for Tom? Argue what you like, but I garentee alot of people who posted what gun they bought instead had lightly thought about getting an xmag, and probably wouldn't have purchased one regardless. Now, people are saying AO is turning into PBN. HMM! How many people on PBN actauly own the gun they say the do?

In the case of Dirty bunny, I aupplaud him for sticking with this product. He bought multiple markers throughout his wait, and I BET VERY HIGHLY the marker that you "SO LOVE NOW INSTEAD OF THE XMAG" will not even be in your posession when you WOULD have gotten that xmag. You will have a new "baby."

I am a true believer in quality, and that is what AGD delivers. If you want massproduced guns, paralleling japanese cars, GO FOR IT. I'll just sit and WAIT for my xmag, shooting the only guns I have ever bought, and still own, my emag and minimag rt.

I'm not going to reply to this thread again... because A: It's been started about 20 times. B: Contains usless bantering C: Untrue facts, ie: those that manike stated.

So please, keep it PG.

[TequilaMockingbird]

Well, thankfully there's a sticky on this now, maybe it'll cut down on these threads.
Personally I thought this one was in pretty bad taste anyways.

As for posting assumptions, that's just part of forums.... Not everyone is privy to accurate info, so when someone is asking for clarification it's expected they're going to have some things wrong.

gtrsi's quoted lines: "I am confused..." "I also believe..." "I thought...." "If not then I can bet..."

At no point did I read "I know for a fact that Tom is drowning in money." He was looking for someone to fill in the blanks, no reason to land on him like a sumo wrestler.

[manike]

Peach, you are calling me a liar?

Originally posted by Peach
C: Untrue facts, ie: those that manike stated.

Want to tell me what I stated that wasn't true? and want to tell me how you know better?

You'd better have some damn good evidence, or apologise, STHU and go post in another thread

Some idiots on here really ought to learn from "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Surreal
well, lets say it DOES in fact cost 40 grand for the machine. at 1,200+ bucks a pop, they would have to sell 34 xmags to fully recover the cost of the machine alone. if the machine was 50k, they would have to sell 41 xmags. 60k, 50 xmags..

how long is the waiting list for xmags already? at least a hundred? if people could buy them on demand, i know for sure that many more people would buy them rather than signing up for a 6 month waiting list..

hell, the Xmag is the only mag i've ever desired, and if i didnt have to wait 6 months for one, i would definitely want that over the angel speed, 2k3 shocker and nerve. but we cant all have what we want.

AGD could make some serious bank if they did their own milling. no duh it would cost alot at first, as does ANYTHING. over a long period of time, AGD would so easily make that money back, and bank much more. not only would they be able to make xmags in house, they would be able to make emags, mini's, retro's, ect. And since AGD is all for the customer () it would most likely bring down the price of mags even further over a longer period of time. you're thinking of the future, right?

I guess, power, heat, rent, transport, labor, and raw materials are all free... :)

[Tron]

Originally posted by manike
Peach, you are calling me a liar?



Want to tell me what I stated that wasn't true? and want to tell me how you know better?

You'd better have some damn good evidence, or apologise, STHU and go post in another thread

Some idiots on here really ought to learn from "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

I think he ment you squashed those rumors. Even though you managed to do nothing but blame AGD and still not explain why it is slow. By the way I still want an Xmag just not possible to wait that long with $1,400 in the balance. But I want one. =)

-Tron

[MantisMag]

yeah i hope peach meant "ie:the ones manike pointed out in his posts" otherwise i think a smackdown is warranted.

gt- your previous implications seemed to be loaded questions. they were questions with the answers built into them. it seemed that they were more than just opinion. other people might read that and take it for fact. in other industries with other companies they probably would be right. but we're talking about AGD here. AGD is a small company. how many companies do you know where there's one man making basically all the decisions? how many of them do their own engineering for their product? how many of them work on marketing? i don't know how tom does it all and still has time to read the threads on AO. my suggestions is to show some tact and try to avoid sounding too hostile in your quest for information. would you walk into a party, however large and open to the public, and insult the host?other than that though you have some of the more intelligent posts questioning where the xmags went. it's a shame you get lumped in with the whiny brats.

marek - i think you're confused as to who gt is. gt did not state what this thread is for. he did not start this thread. no skillz did and then never posted again. anywhere. he has 2 posts total. this thread hasn't been used for it's original purpose since halfway through the first page. gtrsi didn't jump in until the second page. this thread's tone from the beginning was offensive. it had a valid idea but could've done without the commentary. remove the first two paragraphs from the first post and you've actually got a decent threadstarter. wouldn't have lasted but maybe it would've gone a little longer than it did. however that is not gt's fault. his posts were not calling for AGD to invest more money to make more xmags. he was asking why they take so long. to me at least, that's a big difference. if you go back and take a look at who said what i think you'll find that you've been picking fights with the wrong person. the ones you really want are already gone.